S4E20 - The Religious Service (The Aetherius Society)

0:00 George King (recorded): It was in 1954, and it took me by surprise. Actually, I had been practicing yoga for many years previous to this. But on this Saturday morning in May 1954, I was in my apartment, and I heard a voice. It was in English. The voice was not in the head. This was no psychic apparition. The voice was outside of myself, and it said, prepare yourself. You are to become the voice of interplanetary parliament.

1:02 Kayla: On May 8, 1954, a London taxi cab driver named George King experienced what he believed to be direct contact from aliens in the form of an auditory verbal message. The voice commanded, prepare yourself. You are to become the voice of interplanetary parliament. Shortly after, King began to receive transmissions from extraterrestrial, interdimensional beings from Mars, Venus, and across the galaxy. These transmissions occurred when King entered a state of deep meditative trance called samadhi. During these transmissions, a being known as Ethereus utilized King's voice box to spread his message to mankind, urging humans to align themselves with the path towards enlightenment, towards spiritual evolution. And so a London taxicab driver founded one of the earliest UFO religions in the west, the Ethereus society.

1:56 Kayla: But unlike Scientology, with its rampant abuses, violent techniques, and unabashed grift, or unlike heaven's gate, with its mass suicide and accusations of brainwashing, or unlike realism, with its accusations of Nazism and frequent attention from anti cult groups, the Etherea society has something a little bit different. There's a twist here I didn't see coming when I started researching this episode for the show. Speaking of the show, this is cult or just weird? I'm Kayla. I'm a television writer. Chris: I'm Chris. I'm a data scientist and game designer. Kayla: Thank you for joining us for our last episode of season four. This has been the kinder, gentler self carrier season, I think.

2:40 Chris: Like aircraft carrier. Kayla: Yes, aircraft carrier season. Chris: Okay. Kayla: More self care. Ydeh. I think you and I both needed that, and I hope that we brought some coziness and relief to our listeners, too, not just us. How are you, Chris? Chris: I'm not as cozy right now. Cause I have Covid. I'm covesy. Kayla: Speaking of self care. Chris: This is the first time we've actually recorded in two different rooms, so that's fun. Kayla: Yeah. I don't want to get Covid from you. Not again. Not that you gave me Covid. Chris: I'm fine, everyone. Don't worry about me. But if I sound a little nasally, that is why.

3:20 Kayla: That is the COVID That's the Rona talking. Yes, go ahead. Chris: I do have a question, though. Do I vote for this parliament. Is it like a House of Commons or House of Lords situation? Kayla: You know what? I don't know. I don't think that the interplanetary council is democratic. I think it is more something that you evolve into. We will get into kind of the path towards something like that in this belief system, but I don't think it's voted upon. I think it is more a title that you evolve into. Chris: I see. Okay. I didn't mean to get ahead of you or anything. I was just wondering how the workings of the government worked.

4:05 Kayla: It's a good question. It's a solid question. Before we dive too deep into today's topic, the etherea society, I just want to. Yeah. Just connect with our listeners. Like, if you're. If you're listening. Thank you. This has been a fantastic season. If you are a listener who would like to support the show, you can find us on patreon@patreon.com. Culturejustweird, where we have things like outtakes. We have bonus episodes, we have polls, we have. We have different things like that. Just a little side note for our current patrons. We are behind on our bonus episodes, and that's something that we're actually going to be catching up on during our hiatus after the season wraps. So keep an eye out for that. And we actually have new patrons this time around, so we have some new people to shout out.

4:52 Chris: Yeah, even more. Kayla: I know. Chris: Last time we had new patrons. This time we have new patrons. It's great. Kayla: I know. People are amazing. So a big thank you to Liz T, to Dom, and to Ragna Haider, Eric's daughter. Thank you for supporting the show. Chris: Yeah, thank you guys so much. Like, it's even more than just, like, it's not as much about the money as it is about, like, people think that we're actually, like, something valuable to listen to. It just makes us feel really good. So I just. We love you guys, and we love our listeners, too. If you feel like supporting us. Patreon slash culture, just weird. Kayla: Now let's get back to the etherea society. Chris: I can't wait. Kayla: You and you and I. Just for full disclosure for our audience, you and I have already talked about this. This is not a topic that I'm springing on you. I have shared a little bit of the info about this with you and maybe more. We will get to that.

5:41 Chris: I have a level of awareness, but there's a bunch of details that I am not certain of. Kayla: We are getting into those details right now. These are things you don't know, and I would bet a lot of money. Things that our listeners also don't know. Chris: How much money? Kayla: A lot of money. All of the money we make on our Patreon. So all $0. George King grew up in Shropshire, England, with a family deeply steeped in the occult. His parents, particularly his mother, had a great interest in theosophy, which is a spiritual belief system that is kind of one of the origin points for modern day new age beliefs. So it's kind of like theosophy, new thought, those kinds of things were all kind of going on at the same time. Theosophy was founded in the late 18 hundreds, and it married existing concepts together. So taking things like philosophy, I think specifically like platonic ideas, and married those with Hinduism and buddhist beliefs. And it is important to note that theosophy is a very. It's a very white, western invention.

6:48 Kayla: I believe the woman who's kind of like the mother of theosophy, Madame Blavatsky, I think she was a russian immigrant. So there are some elements of appropriation. It's a good name here. It is a very good name. The general overview of theosophy might remind you of a lot of groups we've talked about on the show, or, like, this is stuff that comes up again and again in, like, cult aware circles. Chris: So theosophy, I've heard the. Yeah, the, like, the marriage of, like, what white people perceive as eastern stuff with, like, other aspects of, like, western philosophy. I've. Kayla: Right. Chris: We've definitely seen that before. Kayla: We talked about that with tulpas. We talked about that with SrF. We talked about that just time immemorial. So just to get a little bit deeper into what exactly theosophy is, so general overview is the belief is that there is ancient order of spiritual masters who have attained enlightenment and deep spiritual wisdom who are now working to share those teachings through a living person. The purpose is to help the world reach enlightenment by relearning this ancient, powerful knowledge. These spiritual masters are known to us as figures like Jesus, Buddha, Confucius and others. And humans go through reincarnation until enlightenment is achieved. Various tools, techniques, and tropes are shared to reach that enlightenment. So think of things like yoga, meditation, various supernatural practices.

8:13 Chris: This is already sounding very. This is already sounding very similar to SRF because SRF had, Jesus was part of their pantheon, but then, like, yoga masters were, too. So it already sounds a little bit of like that where, like, you bring. And also they were, like, very much into saying, like, oh, yeah, all these religions are really good. Like Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity. I think they had Islam and Judaism in there, too, I want to say. Kayla: I think in Jainism. Chris: Yeah, Jainism, maybe. Yeah. So they were very much like, yeah. Come one, come all. Kayla: There's a lot of similarities in some of these, in some of the stuff from self realization fellowship and the etherea society, but it's, I feel like it's less that there's similarities between these two individual groups and more. A lot of groups have grown out of things like theosophy. A lot of groups have grown out of kind of, and theosophy is not the only thing, but it definitely is an origin point for this belief that, like, all the religions are true religions because they all just are kind of worshipping the same thing. And all of these religious figures, like, they're all part of our thing. Like, we're kind of the umbrella.

9:20 Chris: So theosophy, you could kind of think of it as like kind of the trunk of some of these branches, like SRF and ethereus and a bunch of these others are like branches. But, like, sure, if you trace back to the trunk, it's theosophy. Kayla: Yeah, I'm sure that, like, Romtha's in there. I'm sure that, like, there's bits of tartaria, like, anything that is considered, like new age probably draws from theosophy. And I don't know enough about theosophy to say, like, oh, this is the be all and end all. This is absolutely like, patient zero. I don't know if Madame Blavatsky was kind of biting off somebody else's already existing ideas, even more so than she already was. But I don't know if this is truly, like, this is the first time anyone married western esotericism with eastern religion, or if it's just kind of like, here is an origin point we can look at.

10:11 Chris: Yeah, probably not. I mean, right. But it certainly seems to be highly influential. That doesn't necessarily mean it was the first. Kayla: Right, right. And this episode's not about theosophy. There's a lot more we can go into on this, but just kind of keep in mind some of these tropes as we talk more in detail about the etherea society. So George King was raised in a family that followed theosophy. So that means from a young age, he was into things like spiritual healing, mysticism, the metaphysical yoga, psychic powers, and that specific blend of western esotericism, new age beliefs, and eastern religion that we've been talking about. His mother had claims of direct contact with extraterrestrials, including riding and flying saucers with Martians and Venusians, one of whom she recognized as Jesus.

11:04 Chris: Wait, so Jesus was driving the flying saucer? Kayla: Jesus was in the flying saucer with the Martians and the Venusians. Chris: Okay, he wasn't necessarily driving. He was like. Was he like Captain Picard, or was he? Kayla: Yeah, he was sitting in the chair, and Jonathan Frakes was there, and he. Chris: Stepped over the chair. Weirdly. Kayla: Yeah. If you've seen Star Trek, you understand the etherea society, which actually, you kind of do. When George King was 25, he got very serious about his yoga practice, and eventually he claimed to have mastered several forms of yoga, most notably Kundalini yoga. And so when we're talking about yoga here, it's kind of like, think again about self realization fellowship, where we're not talking about, were they kundalini, they might have been. We'll get to that. Hold on. We'll get to that. There's a lot to cover here. We're not talking about when you go to the gym and you take a hatha yoga class or a power yoga class where you're doing down dog and pigeon and these different, very physical poses. This is the yoga in SRF, where it was more internal work, like more meditative, more spiritual.

12:15 Kayla: So Kundalini Yoga is a practice that helps one manipulate their Kundalini energy, which, Kundalini is a concept in Hinduism. So it's this divine energy located at the base of the spine. And in new age beliefs, Kundalini energy takes immense practice and concentration and wisdom to be able to draw it up along the various chakras along the spine. So the idea is you want to take this energy and bring it up through your various chakras, and that gives you higher levels of meditative enlightenment. Chris: Okay. And chakras are just, what? Like, positions within.

12:56 Kayla: They're like little. They're like different. Yeah, different positions kind of along the spine, going from the base of the spine all the way to the top of the head, and just kind of think of each one as, like, a spiritual power center. Chris: And they all sort of have, like, a theme, right? Like. Like base, you know? Kayla: I don't know too much about that. And, like, most of my understanding of chakras are going to be coming from this, like, very new age, western, like, appropriative place. I don't know. Chris: Yeah, me too. Mine mostly. Yeah, mine mostly come from, you know, like, watching reiki videos or listening to Reiki videos as I go to sleep. In YouTube, so I probably don't have a clear picture either.

13:36 Kayla: Yeah, so I think just thinking of them as, like, spiritual centers along the spine that each correspond to different things. So there's like a throat chakra and a third eye chakra and a crown chakra and a solar plexus chakra, and they all kind of have different purposes. You might remember us talking about SRF. Like, that was their whole thing, was that they. They had a proprietary practice that dealt with bringing the electric current energy of Kundalini up and down the spine. So, yes, it was. Again, there's overlap here. George King became very practiced in this drawing up of the Kundalini energy. And while for some, doing this might take many minutes or hours of intense focus, he actually cultivated the ability to do the same in seconds. So he could bring the Kundalini energy up into his throat in like 30 seconds.

14:29 Chris: Throat chakra, how do you measure something like that? Do you have a stopwatch? Kayla: He said, it takes me about 30 seconds. I mean, there's. I don't know if you need to time it. You just know, oh, it's 30. Oh, it's down there. Oh, it's up here now. And for him, it was like the manipulation of the Kundalini in this way allowed him to enter into the state of Samadhi, which, again, we talked about with SRF, because Paramahansa Yogananda was also able to achieve this state. And this is basically a very pure, intense, meditative state, like, reaching universal consciousness kind of thing. Chris: Sounds pretty sweet. Kayla: Yeah, I would like to be able to do it. I cannot move my kundalini to save my life. It was this ability that allowed George King to be able to tap into the secrets of the spiritual world and eventually become the vessel of transmission for interplanetary parliament or spiritual masters looking to share their knowledge with the people of earth. So ten years after his foray into yoga, hears a voice in his London apartment commanding him to become the vessel for these masters, particularly a cosmic master from Venus named Ethereus.

15:44 Chris: Oh, okay, so Ethereus was a guy. Kayla: Theris was a guy. Theories is a cosmic master. George King was kind of like, I don't know what this means, but he didn't really have to wait long for instructions because he says that a week later, a legendary yogi, who he doesn't name, but he was like, oh, I automatically recognized this guy. He's very famous. He walked into his locked apartment and sat down and said, basically, you need to heed this message. You need to develop your yogic and meditative powers even further, and then you need to share these teachings that are being transmitted to you with the world. And so kind of from this marriage of the message from ethereus, this yogi coming in saying, hey, get your ass up and work.

16:32 Chris: Was this like a Jacob Marley thing where he was like a ghost that came in and was like, hey, man, do this thing. Kayla: No, he's just like. Chris: Or was this, like a living yogi that just, like, broke into his house? Kayla: He's very clear that this man was alive at the time and was physically present. Like, he even says when George King describes this, he says, like, he sat down across from me, the chair creaked under his weight, like he was physically there. Chris: So it was a break in. Kayla: I don't know if it was so much a break in as it was like a spiritual moment, because, like, the door was locked and he just, like, opened it. Spiritual break in. Either way, the Ethereus society was born from this. So just a short time later, in, I think around 1956, George King rented a space, like, he rented a, like, a meeting space in town, and he began formally channeling cosmic masters, including ethereuse, as well as a martian named Mars. Sector six, which is the coolest name.

17:28 Chris: That's an extremely cool name. Kayla: It's the coolest name. He also channeled Jesus Christ, who was revealed to be. Chris: You've heard of him? Kayla: Not in this way, because the Jesus Christ we know was like, oh, son of God came through Mary, Bethlehem. No, Jesus Christ is actually a cosmic master who is from Venus. And I know I sound a little flippant when I'm talking about this. I don't mean to. These are definitely beliefs that are out there, out of the realm of norm. But I am not intending to belittle or mock the beliefs of this actual group of people. It's just very. It's very different than what we're used to. Chris: It's very different. And coming at it from a more Normie perspective means it's going to be hard to, like, just swallow it, hold hog right off the bat.

18:13 Kayla: Yes. In addition to Jesus Christ being from Venus, he also channeled Buddha, who was also from Venus. And there were others in the mixed. These channelings or transmissions were public events, and through these events, George King began to develop a following across England and the United States. He even appeared on television, most notably in 1959, to share his message and demonstrate his ability to channel and speak as ethereus. Chris: Oh, shit. He went on tv. Kayla: He went on tv and he did a whole, like, it was some BBC show where it was like, hello, we are BBC, and we have some psychiatrists here who are going to talk to this guy who says he can talk to aliens, and then we're gonna talk about it.

18:55 Chris: And, you know, Jesus and Buddha must have really good sunscreen or something. Well, actually, no, it's not hot on Venus because of the sun. It's hot because of the global warming. Kayla: Well, we'll get to that. Chris: Oh, okay. They have ways to kind of combat. They have really good umbrellas. Kayla: We'll get to that. So over the course of his spiritual career, George King made over 600 audio recordings of the various teachings, holy moly the cosmic masters wanted to share with humans. And those audio recordings have become the basis of theology of the Etherea society. These recordings were also developed into a number of books written by King and his disciples. And at a time when UFO's and aliens kind of had the public troubled and concerned, like, were kind of afraid of UFO's in the fifties.

19:44 Chris: We were. Kayla: Yeah, well, it's like, think about, like, think about, you know, it was a time of war. The world and Mars attacks and like, body snatchers and like scary space. Like, we're afraid of nuclear disaster, so we're afraid of aliens. Chris: You know, I heard that the war of the worlds thing is like a little overblown. Kayla: Of course it's over blown. Chris: There were some people that, like, tuned in and thought it was real, but for the most part, there wasn't like a massive panic where, like, everybody thought that were getting invaded by aliens. Kayla: That makes sense. But this was a different kind of alien being presented, where it was more comforting and like the offering of answers, rather than like, oh, no, we're being invaded. And his mother even confirmed George King's legitimacy during one of her flying saucer rides with aliens, as the aliens spoke to her and backed up his claims and said, yes, we are using your son as a way to transmit our messages.

20:40 Chris: So his mom rode in the flying saucers. Kayla: Yeah. And said, hey, is this the real deal? And they went, yes. Chris: I mean, isn't being in the flying saucer enough to tell you it's the real deal? Kayla: Not that aliens were the real deal, that George King was getting messages from them that he was sharing, that they were supposed to be like, oh, these are the, this is like spiritual teachings you need to share with the world that are being told to you from aliens, by the way, like, all of your spiritual figures are aliens. Chris: And maybe for someone like misses king riding around in a flying saucer's like old hat. Maybe it's not that big a deal. Kayla: Yeah, that's not the big deal. The big deal is that her son is the chosen one. Chris: Right. Okay. Kayla: In addition to his spiritual adeptness, George King also amassed a number of titles and honors throughout his life. The ethereal society refers to him as an author, inventor, metaphysician, occultist, prophetess, psychic, spiritual healer, spiritual leader, teacher, yogi, and aquarian master.

21:41 Chris: Damn, that's a lot of merit badges. Kayla: He was knighted with the title knighthood in the sovereign military orthodox, dynastic, imperial, constantinian order of St. George from the byzantine. From the byzantine royal house in exile, which gave him the title of sir. Even though that's like this. This was not recognized by England's College of Arms. So, like, England's College of Arms, which says, like, yes, this knighthood is allowed, or that knighthood's not allowed. They didn't recognize his knighthood. The ethereum. Chris: Did they hear the name, though? Kayla: I think that they did, and I think they went, that's a lot of names. And british people usually like that, but it's not british names, so we don't like it. That's my impression of british people, especially.

22:29 Chris: British royalty, except for british listeners. Kayla: You guys are all, we don't like it. They have a lot of vocal fry, of course. Chris: Yeah, Britain. They have a lot of vocal fry. Yeah, classic Britain. Kayla: The Etherea society refers to him as Doctor George King, though it's not entirely clear where his doctorate is from. And what's it in. We'll kind of get into that a little bit later. He was consecrated as metropolitan archbishop of the Athurius churches by the liberal Catholic Church, which actually, even though it doesn't sound like it, that's actually a theosophy organization, not like a catholic organization. The Catholics aren't going like, Catholics are.

23:11 Chris: Pretty fucking occult as it is, though. Kayla: I mean, that's pretty. Yeah, they're pretty. The society also refers to George King as his eminence, and there have been claims he has a PhD, THD, and DD. I don't know what any of those things are, except for the ph. It has also been claimed that he was a police chaplain, so quite the accomplished gentleman. In addition to receiving and sharing knowledge from the cosmic masters. Chris: Yeah, that's a lot. Kayla: I will also say here that most of the information we have on George King comes from the group itself. So this hagiography is kept and disseminated by the ethereal society, and that makes a lot of it kind of difficult to cross check with other sources. And again, you know, we'll save the debunking for later. So you can expect that George King died in 1997, but the society has continued on according to his teachings and progressing them. The society now believes King to be an avatar and cosmic master, and that he is the only person in the society to receive transmissions from other extraterrestrial masters. At this point, you might be wondering about the content shared in those 600 transmission sessions and various books and teachings from Doctor George King and the Etherea Society.

24:25 Chris: Yeah, I hope they teach us, like, warp drive and stuff, right? Kayla: Not that I know of, but there is so much material here that maybe they do, and I didn't. I didn't see it. I don't know. Chris: I guess you don't really need warp drive if you're just going between, like, Mars and Venus. Kayla: Given the amount of content present in theology of this group, it's just not possible for us to be comprehensive or exhaustive in this episode because that would be like, okay, let's try and share every single thing that is in the Bible. We can't cover the entire Bible or Quran in one sitting. We can't cover the entire theology of the etherea society in one sitting. So we're going to do our best with an overview to begin. Cosmic masters are spiritually advanced beings from other planets and dimensions, sometimes referred to as the gods. From space, they visit Earth and spacecraft, which we refer to as UFO's. Their goals with their visits are that they want to teach mankind the path to enlightenment. Cosmic masters occasionally come to earth by being born into human bodies known as cosmic avatars.

25:36 Kayla: So examples of this are Jesus, Buddha, Sri Krishna, Lao Tzu, Sri Patanjali, and many others. Chris: King himself. Right. You said they thought he was an avatar. Kayla: As far as I know, George King never claimed himself to be an avatar, but that is the belief of the group posthumously. That is the belief of the group now, is that he is an avatar. Chris: Gotcha. Kayla: These cosmic masters form the interplanetary council, or cosmic hierarchy, which is seated in Saturn, and that's where Krishna's from. So again, like, I don't think it's a democratic process. I think just if you're a cosmic master, you're kind of on this council. Chris: So. Okay, so it's not just Mars and Venus, it's also Saturn. Kayla: Correct.

26:16 Chris: How does it, like, is it like one of Saturn's moons? Or do they. Does he have, like, a floating city or floating. Because, like, Saturn's a gas giant. Kayla: Saturn, just from Saturn he's from Saturn. It's in Saturn. Chris: Unsure. Kayla: Other cosmic masters, like we mentioned, are from Mars, Venus, other planets in the galaxy, other galaxies in the universe. There is also a spiritual hierarchy of Earth in which ascended masters serve. So stay with me. Ascended masters are different than cosmic masters. Ascended masters, they serve on Earth in order to help usher others into spiritual enlightenment. So, like, the cosmic masters are out in space. Ascended masters are people who achieve enlightenment on Earth and then are here to help others achieve that enlightenment, because important religious figures from all over the world and from all different faiths are members of these hierarchies. The group essentially says that, like, all major world religions come from the same source and teach the same thing, so everything goes back to the same God or source like were talking about before.

27:23 Chris: Mm, it sounds very theosophy. Theosophian, esophageal, esophagus. Kayla: Esophagus. This part is very cool. I like it a lot. Each human's destiny is to become a cosmic master. Chris: Sick. Kayla: Essentially, all of us are on an extremely long journey towards this highest level of enlightenment, and we will live many reincarnated lives in order to get there. Chris: I like that, too. Kayla: I like, it just feels like. I know that. I don't know. I'm sure that there's. I'm sure that there's badness in it, but I also just really like the idea of, like, yeah, we're all gonna just be, like, totally, like, dope cosmic beings one day.

28:09 Chris: Yeah, it's cool that we're, like, we're all on that track, right? It's pretty optimistic. Like, you know, even if I. Where there's bumps in the road or whatever, you know, I'm on. I'm on my way there. Kayla: Eventually, you'll get there one day. Because of this lengthy process of reincarnation and because they have ascended so many times, the cosmic masters are very old, very wise, and basically immortal. Chris: Oh, never mind. I can't do that. I'm not that wise. Kayla: If you live enough lives, you'll be wise. Chris: I am old, though. I'll get that. Kayla: The reason why our space program has never found evidence of life on other planets in our galaxy and I, the reason why cosmic masters can live on planets we know to be uninhabitable, like Saturn and Venus and Mars and all the rest, is that these entities exist on a higher spiritual level than the one that we're on. So they are able to maintain a higher vibratory rate, which they can lower and raise at will, and that allows them to live on these planets, but they're not living on them in the same physical plane that if you and I tried to go live on Saturn, we couldn't do it because our vibrations are off. But these cosmic masters can live on Venus because of the higher vibratory rate that they have. They can live on a different plane.

29:25 Chris: On Venus, but they still couldn't afford a house in Los Angeles, though. Kayla: Absolutely not. This vibratory rate also explains why UFO's have been observed to kind of, like, blink in and out of sight. So, like, when people see UFO's and it's like, oh, my God. All of a sudden, there's a UFO there, and then all of a sudden, it's gone. So that blinking in and out is the masters raising and lowering their vibratory rate. That's how, like, they're going in and out of our plane of existence. These enlightened aliens have been visiting humankind since the beginning and have been sharing their teachings throughout our history. So, sightings such as the star of Bethlehem, which is visible when Jesus was born on earth, or the flying palaces and chariots known as vimanas in hindu and sanskrit epics, these are actually both.

30:13 Chris: I've never heard of those. Kayla: I had not heard of those, either. It's this idea of, like. Yeah, like, flying palaces and chariots in the sky, and they're in hindu belief. Chris: A, that's cool, and b, okay, I can see where if you were trying to, like, tie UFO's into that and there's, like, stuff in the sky, I kind of get that. Kayla: Right. So star of Bethlehem, these different things, these are all actually examples of UFO's. So there's kind of, like, a little bit of ancient aliens thing going on here. But I don't think that they say things like, and they built the pyramids. I don't think that's necessarily part of etherea society belief. I did not come across that, but. So don't quote me. Chris: I won't. Kayla: The ethereal society also believes that humans are not the only intelligent beings on an evolutionary path towards higher states of enlightenment. Hello?

31:00 Chris: We're intelligent. Wait, what? Kayla: Yes. The sun, the earth, the galaxy itself are living entities. Further along in their spiritual evolution, humanity has veered off course in its path towards enlightenment and now requires the guidance from the cosmic masters to get to where we need to be. Chris: So this is. I don't know if you talk about this later, but we had this discussion a little bit when were discussing Ethereus a little while ago for this episode. But, I mean, there is some here. How do I put this? There's an actual scientific proposal. It's not necessarily supported by any sort of evidence or testing or anything, but there is a proposal called the Gaia hypothesis that the earth's biosphere constitutes a mega organism that is alive in its own right. Sort of like how you and I are comprised of a bunch of cells. Maybe Earth's biosphere is actually one organism comprised of all the different animals and plants. Yada, yada. That is actually a thing. And then I've also heard, you know, there's different definitions for life out there, like, what. What is living versus what is not living, obviously.

32:09 Chris: Like, what constitutes life and what doesn't constitute life gets to be like, you know, pretty gray area when you talk about certain things like viruses and whatnot. So, like, there's some of the definitions of life that are really broad to encompass all of that stuff. One of them is that it is a localized decrease in entropy compared to its surroundings. So anytime you have a localized. So, like, for example, humans are organized in a certain way, or, you know, a single celled organism is organized in a certain way. And if you compare the entropy of that thing to its surroundings, it's less. If you look at the galaxy as a whole, it actually does have. Because of the way it's organized, it actually does have less entropy than, like, the surrounding space. So they're.

32:58 Chris: According to that definition, one could say maybe the galaxy is alive. So it's. I'm not saying it's like, hey, like, science says this is true, but I am saying that, like, there's some, like, not totally out there, you know, kernels of truth, maybe to, like, the earth is alive or. Right, the galaxy is alive, maybe, right? Kayla: I think it's just, you know, it kind of maybe sounds really foreign to hear, like, oh, the earth is actually on its own evolutionary path. The earth is an advanced being that's, you know, it's on its own evolution. The galaxy, like, these kinds of claims, feel very science fictiony. It's good to remind us that, like, well, there is maybe less science fiction than it sounds at first. At first blush.

33:44 Chris: And if you take the broad definition of evolution, then that's just plain true, right? Like, maybe it's not, you know, biological. Like, evolution by natural selection. Like, you know, like you would normally think of when you say that word. But, like, these systems do evolve over time, whether they're sentient, whether they're alive or not. Like, the universe does evolve from one state to another. The galaxy does have, you know, an evolution of sorts where it goes from one state to another. Stars. There's different types of stars now than there were before, and there will be, you know, different types of stars later on, and there'll be more, you know, more of a certain type and less of a certain type. So things do evolve. Kayla: Maybe they're evolving towards the path to enlightenment. Who knows? Enlightened stars, supposedly our, like, humans lack of spiritual evolution is actually holding the earth back on her journey. Like, she. She is continuing forward.

34:37 Chris: Oh, shit. Our bad Gaia. Kayla: Yeah, just more slowly than she should be. And it's kind of, like, up to us if we're gonna decide if we're going to evolve alongside her. So we. According to their beliefs, we actually have the choice between enlightenment or self destruction. And the cosmic masters triggered the creation of the etherea society to help us choose the enlightenment over the destruction, which sounds kind of nice. I appreciate that. Chris: Yeah, thanks, guys. Kayla: In addition to the cosmic masters and ascended masters, the etherea society also reveres entities known as the six adepts. In society theology, an adept is somebody who can raise their Kundalini energy up into the throat chakra, which, like we said, george king was able to do. But the six adepts are actually kind of a different concept, so just stay with me. Three adepts were born as cosmic avatars on earth into physical earth bodies to help humankind sometime in the early 20th century. Their identities have not been revealed, but they worked together on a special mission, along with adepts four and five who were masters who existed on other planes of existence. So they were not physically on earth. So there's the three guys who are physically on earth, and then, like, spiritual guys on a different plane working together.

35:58 Kayla: And all five of them worked with Lord Babaji, who is a great yogi. That, again, you might remember as being one of the immortal spiritual teachers of Paramahansa Yogananda from self realization fellowship. So Lord Babishi was the 6th guy on this team. So then you have the six adepts, the three avatars on earth, the two spiritual guys, and then Lord Babaji. Chris: Okay, got this. Is, like Battlestar Galactica, where it's like, which ones are the Cylons? Kayla: Yeah. These adepts worked together by projecting into other planes of existence on earth and other planets. And these planes are essentially where we end up after we die but before we reincarnate. So we go to different planes after we. After we pass, and then we're kind of there, and then we eventually reincarnate into different lives. So which plane we go to is determined by how far along in our spiritual evolution we are. And the sorting process just kind of happens based on that. It's not like a process of being judged by an entity. Like in Christianity, where you're like, oh, you're judged to go to hell. You're judged to go to heaven. It's more like, oh, I go to slot six, because I'm on level six of the spiritual evolution path.

37:13 Kayla: Obviously, highly evolved intelligences go to the highest planes and the least spiritually evolved. So, like, the, quote unquote, worst of us will end up on the lowest planes. Yeah. Podcasters. The society points out that this is where, quote, evil dictators and mass murderers go. So maybe we won't quite be there, but we'll definitely only be one step above. Chris: We'll be. Oh, right above. Sorry. Kayla: Even after death, some of these powerful negative entities are quite strong or become stronger, and they then attack Earth and humanity with evil spiritual energy. The three adepts took on missions known as the alien mission and Operation Carmelite to project to the lower planes and fight evil alien and terrestrial intelligences that were trying to destroy the earth.

38:06 Chris: Yo, this got epic. Kayla: One of these entities was known as Satan, but they're very clear. Like, look, this is not, like, a duality. This is not, like, a God versus Satan thing. Satan is nowhere near as powerful as God, because God is just like. God is everything, so he's just an entity. Both the alien mission and Operation Carmelite were successful, and according to the society, quote, if they had not been, then life as we know it on Earth would not now exist. Chris: Oh, shit. Kayla: Thank you to the six adepts. Chris: Dodged a bullet there. Kayla: According to the society, in addition to the six adepts, we also know of three other cosmic adepts active on the subtle planes, which are the different planes of existence. Adept nixies zero 00:11 and team. Also known as the masters from Gotha, who invoke the energy used in Operation Sunbeam.

39:00 Chris: Is there going to be a quiz on this? Because I'm nothing like. This is very complicated. Kayla: Three more known as adept nixies zero nine in team. End quote. So there's more adepts, and they have very cool names. Chris: They do have cool names, which I will not remember. Kayla: There will also be a coming of the next master from space sometime in the future. So they kind of have a little bit of the messiah is returning kind of thing. Chris: Yeah, you gotta have a little bit of, like. Kayla: He will arrive via UFO and basically, like, do a reverse rapture. So if you are enlightened enough, you will stay on Earth? Actually, that's not a reverse rapture. Wait, how does it work? Do they think that earth is gonna be good and everyone gets to stay on earth, and then the bad people go to hell? Or do the rapture people think that we ascend to heaven and the bad people stay here and earth turns to hell?

39:52 Chris: You know, I never read the left behind series, so I'm not super up. I did actually try it. Point. I tried reading the first left behind book because they were, like, super popular for a time, right? And I was just like, all right, you know what? I'm just gonna give it a shot. I got, like, two pages in. It was just completely intolerable. Anyway, not to sidetrack on left behind. I think the way it works is that the most, like, holy, enlightened one with Jesus or whatever people get. They're the ones that get raptured up. They immediately go to heaven and. And then, like, everybody else is just kind of, like, has to fight it out with all the, you know, Armageddon versus the Antichrist, yada. And I think that at that point, like, if you. I'm not sure what happens then.

40:37 Chris: I think, like, some of those people go to hell, and some of them can still earn their way into heaven somehow. I'm not. That's where I get a little bit unclear on it. Kayla: Well, the rapture here is basically like, if you're enlightened enough, you don't get raptured. You stay on Earth, and you enjoy this, like, new utopian millennium. If you are not enlightened enough, you are actually. You get raptured, you get taken away, and you will be reborn on another planet, a different planet, and you will continue your own advancement towards enlightenment. There. Chris: I see. Kayla: Because of humankind's slow progress and spiritual evolution, we're actually open to attack from evil alien forces from across the universe. And the cosmic masters are frequently fighting with these invaders. Often.

41:20 Chris: Is it, like, a spiritual battle, or is it, like, with lasers? Kayla: It's spiritual. It's. Well, I don't actually know. I think it is more of a spiritual battle. I think that lasers probably would help, but I believe. Chris: Are there spiritual lasers? Kayla: It's a spiritual battle. I'm gonna say yes to the spiritual lasers, but that's not. Probably not canon. Chris: Okay. Kayla: Often, environmental and societal issues on earth, such as pollution, nuclear power, climate change, war, these are actually all symptoms of the much larger spiritual problem of humanity's arrested development. There is a lack of proper spiritual energy among humans, which puts us into a, quote, spiritual energy crisis. In order to help combat this crisis, George King invented devices to help spread or amplify the energy of the etherea society. One of these inventions is known as the spiritual energy battery. The specifics of its design are proprietary, so, like, not really known to the public. But the intent is that the etherea society holds special gatherings called operation Prayer power, in which followers of the organization gather around the battery and spiritual leaders pray, chant mantras, and direct the spiritual energy from the room into the battery where it can be stored.

42:31 Kayla: So then when humanity is in times of crisis, they can then release the energy and spread it to the area in need. Chris: Right. Or if you need to, like, plug in, like a, you know, like an emergency power. Kayla: I don't think it's that kind of. Chris: Keep the lights on. Oh, it's only spiritual energy. Kayla: No, it's just spiritual energy. Chris: Okay. Kayla: And the etherea society believes that operation Prayer power has helped prevent wars and natural disasters such as hurricanes, and it's maybe even saved the world a time or two. Chris: Oh, shit. Kayla: Thanks, guys. In addition to operation prayer power, the etherea society also has what's called spiritual pushes. And these happen for during, like, these happen four times a year. So this is a month long period in which a spacecraft known as satellite number three comes into Earth orbit. The spacecraft actually belongs to Mars, sector six, who, remember, was one of the cosmic masters that King channeled and had the coolest name. While in orbit, satellite number three sends, like, special spiritual energy down to Earth. So it's like a time of great spiritual power. Anyone can draw on this energy or help create positive karma with it. This is supposed to be a very opportune time to help transform the world for the better.

43:47 Kayla: And according to the society, the energy from satellite number three makes every selfless act of service 3000 times more potent in terms of its karmic benefit to the world as a whole. Chris: Oh, so you definitely want to take advantage of that. Yes. Kayla: And obviously satellite number three is blocked from being viewed by telescopes or radar. Chris: Yeah, of course. Kayla: The group also has a number of mountains that they've deemed sacred and have imbued with spiritual energy. And these mountains are sites of pilgrimage as well. I think there's like 19 across the world. I know that Mount Baldy is one of them in Los Angeles, and there's frequent pilgrimages there. Chris: Wait, Mount Bald? Is that the one that's right next to Mount Wilson? Kayla: It's right next to Mount Wilson, which has an old telescope on it that cannot see satellite number three. So in addition to these mountain pilgrimages to operation Parapower and the spiritual pushes, the group also has twice weekly church services, the first one being the twelve blessings services and power circles. So the twelve blessings are what the title says, they're twelve blessings. They were transmitted to George King by Jesus in 1958. And each blessing consists of a dedication, so, like, to the mother earth, to the gal, to those things, each to.

45:00 Chris: Different things, all the cool stuff. Kayla: And then a prayer follows. The goal of the service is to cultivate and send out spiritual energy to those in need. You might be sensing a theme here. They do visualization chant mantras, use mudras, which are like different, like hand poses. That's like the way the service is conducted. And then they also have the Sunday divine services, which are similar to a church service. So again, visualization, prayer, mantras, mudras, all used here to cultivate spiritual energy to heal the world. But at these services, there's also, like an address by a spiritual leader of the society, so kind of like a sermon. And then there is a recording of King himself shared, like, one of his recordings of one of the twelve blessings. So he. There's recordings of him channeling Jesus, sharing these blessings.

45:55 Kayla: So the Etherea society believes that since Jesus was speaking through King, these recordings are literally recordings of Jesus voice. So it's very powerful for them. Chris: And these recordings are like, kind of like you played at the top of the. You played one of King's recordings at the top of the show, right? Kayla: Yes. That was, though, that was a video recording. So the audio recordings have a slightly better quality, but are still, you know, they recorded in the fifties. Chris: Okay, so that wasn't necessarily like him channeling Jesus. That was just him. Kayla: That was just him talking. That was just him sharing the experience of, like, here's what happened when Ethereus first started channeling. Through me, I see the Ethereus society also believes in and provides hands on spiritual healing, yoga practices, dowsing and more like, they have a lot of different, like, new age adjacent spiritual beliefs. There is also something called King Yoga, which is a specific yoga technique developed by George King to help advance the process of spiritual evolution. So it's, again that, like cultivating kundalini, it's that meditation, like, these are very powerful practices for the group. And kind of above all, the group believes in service to others. Like, that concept is revisited time and time again. Selfless service to others, helping others, serving others.

47:14 Kayla: And the etherea society believes that the best way to be in service to others is by cultivating and sending out your highest spiritual energy. So they're not, you know, I don't want to say. They're not saying, like, you know, help an old lady across the street, donate to charity. They're not. Not saying that. But what they are saying is that we believe service is, you know, service is. Is God. We think the best way to serve others is to cultivate the highest spiritual energy that we can and send it out to where it is needed. Chris: Okay. So service to them is less, like, individual acts and more about the, like, you know, charging the spiritual battery and doing things like that.

47:55 Kayla: That's what it seems to me. I don't want to say that they're not encouraging, like, more traditional forms of service. Maybe they are, but definitely the spiritual energy thing is kind of like the be all, end all of. Chris: Got it. Kayla: So that's the overview. Chris: Wow. Thanks for that short little. Kayla: I know it's a lot, and it really only scratches the surface of what the etherea society believes. Like, again, they have dozens of books, hundreds of recordings, like, interviews and podcast episodes, everything explaining the intricacies of their profound beliefs. Do you have any questions? Chris: I wouldn't even know where to begin. I think you answered a lot of questions. I did have, you know, where did George King get his start? And then, like, some of the specifics behind their beliefs and, you know, which planets, different masters are from. Like, I feel like you hit the basic pillars, but, like, from here, I don't even know what to ask, I guess.

48:52 Kayla: Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. And it's. It's very similar in some ways to things like Christianity. Like, you have, like, the spiritual warfare and you have, like, you have that stuff, but you also have things that are totally unique to aetherius society, like satellite number three and Aetherius himself and Mars center six. And then you have things that are, like, very traditionally in theosophy and new age beliefs, like spiritual healing and the idea of Matt, like, it's a really interesting blend of existing concepts with a new spin. Chris: Yeah, it definitely feels like a blend. It definitely feels like, yeah, like you just were saying there's elements of Christianity, there's elements of eastern religions and spirituality, and then they kind of have their own, like, secret sauce in there, too.

49:42 Kayla: Right, right. And, yeah, I want to point out, like, it is a millenarian belief system. Like, they believe in the end days are coming kind of thing. And, you know, I said up top that George King was brought up in a family that believed in theosophy. They were also protestant. Like, there was also a protestant family as well. So his. Yeah, yeah, I know his upbringing was essentially that blend. Like, his upbringing was hearing about, you know, stuff that Protestants believe, like hearing about Jesus and hearing about, you know, the rapture and hearing about judgment and hearing about spiritual warfare, and then also hearing about the. The eastern religions and western esotericism. Like, it's clear to see where he was influenced when he, you know, when. When the idea for this religion came to him.

50:33 Kayla: I know that I'm going against the teachings of the society. The teachings of society obviously say that this was transmitted to him. But if you want to take a step outside of their belief system, like, it does seem that he took the teachings he was raised with and added the etherea stuff to create something new. Chris: Yeah. Like, if you take anthropological perspective on this, then you can definitely see where some of his upbringing shines through in the beliefs and teachings of the Etherea society. Kayla: Right. And like I keep saying, like, it's a lot to take in. Like, it definitely feels like something where it's not really enough to read about it. Like, this is something that maybe you have to experience. And so that's what we did.

51:21 Chris: Oh, did we? Kayla: Sorry, listeners. I was sitting on that card for a long time. We actually. Chris: You buried the lead. Kayla: I did bury the lead. The headquarters for the Etherea Society is in Los Angeles. They have different centers all around the world, but they're headquartered. They are headquartered here. So Chris and I had the opportunity to go and pay them a visit. So, Chris, do you want to share with our listeners about our experience putting. Putting you on the. Chris: Oh, yeah. I don't even have time to channel anyone. Thanks a lot. Kayla: Sorry. Chris: Yeah, I mean, like, it's. There's a lot to unpack here, too. We visited them twice. The first time, were intending to go to one of their. What is it called? Prayer power.

52:10 Kayla: We were. I was. I was trying to take you to operation prayer power. Chris: Okay. And that's the one where they charged the battery, correct? The. The spiritual battery. Unfortunately, they didn't have an. I think because it was. There were some people out sick, they didn't have enough people to do it, so it was canceled that night. But luckily, like, went anyway, and we got to meet. I believe it was the. I want to say the pastor. Kayla: We met a reverend. I noticed he was referenced as reverend and one of the followers and then. Chris: One of the followers, but I think she was. She seemed like she was either high up or had been with them for a while or something. She was very knowledgeable. Anyway, bottom line is, they talked to us for, like, a long time. Like, they talked to us at length.

52:53 Kayla: Hold on. Before you get to them talking to us, just. Can you describe physically what the place looked like? Chris: Oh, it's cool. It was like Disneyland. It was cool as hell. It was like, if you were to picture, like, a UFO, like, cult compound, but, like, pretty. This was it. Like. It was. So it's in Hollywood. Kayla: It's in, like, a suburb. It's in, like, a Hollywood suburb. Like, it's not on a main street. It's like you go into a neighborhood, and then all of a sudden it's like, oh, there's hedges with gates. Chris: Yeah. And the gates are, like, these, like, metal. Metal, beautiful metalwork with, like, little stars kind of punched out so that, like, lightning from behind the gate shines through these metal gates and looks like, almost like a star field, but, like a stylized star field. So it's, like, already. That's beautiful. And you see? So you walk through these gates, which, like, feels, like, sort of significant because of their art, and then you get in and, like, it's just. I don't know. They have really pretty grounds. It's kept very nicely.

53:52 Kayla: There's, like, fountains and there. Chris: Yeah, well, yeah, there's this one fountain that's, like. I don't know how to describe. It's, like, really, like, high production value fountain. It's got, like, an orb, like a glass orb or something, and, like, the water comes out of that, but then it's, like, it's backlit with, like, you know, pink and blue light, and then there's, like, word. You know, there's, like, words engraved. Like, there's some of their, I think, beliefs or something engraved around the side of the fountain. So, anyway, it's just. It's very pretty and very. Yeah, it does look. It does have that sense of, like, cosmological ness to it because of, like, the stars and the orbs and stuff like that.

54:32 Kayla: I mean, we just sat at the grounds for, like, 1520 minutes, just kind of waiting, and it was very peaceful. I mean, this was, like, at 08:00 at night on a Thursday, so it was cold and quiet, and it just was, like, a nice place, and it seemed like there was maybe, like, living spaces there. Like, it kind of took up, like, half a city block, I would say. Chris: Yeah, we'll definitely. We have some pictures, which if. If we find it ethical enough, we'll share on Instagram. But, yeah, it was just. Yeah, it was peaceful. I actually didn't. I'm sitting here saying, oh, yeah, if you pictured a UFO cult, like, it would be like this. But I actually didn't pick up on that until they actually invited us inside. After we had talked with them for.

55:12 Kayla: A little while, we talked with the beliefs. One of the followers came up to us and was like, hi. We were like, hi, we're here for the thing. And she was like, oh, it's not happening. But, you know, then she just spoke to us about her beliefs. And it was very. There was a lot of focus on Jesus. Like, it felt like were kind of. You had no idea what were doing. I knew what were doing. So it kind of felt like were at just maybe some sort of, you know, christian event. Chris: And then, like an outsider christian type thing. Kayla: Then the reverend walked up and, you know, was introduced to us as well, and invited us inside. And we walked in. And as we're walking in, you look up. What did you see? Chris: I looked up, and I see what I'm now know is satellite number three. Like a little. What's not diorama, like a culture.

55:59 Kayla: Yeah, like a model. Chris: Yeah, like a model of this satellite with, again, with some of their, like, sayings, mantras, I'm not sure what, but again, like, engraving type stuff around it. And I was looking at it. I'm like, what's this? And then, like, that's when the reverend started explaining some of the UFO stuff. And I was like, oh. And then it's kind of, like, all came together for me. Kayla: And we got to see. We were brought into their church. We got to see the church. And there was different pictures. Like, there was portraits. So there was Lord Babaji, there was Jesus, there was Buddha. There were also portraits of the galaxy, the sun, the earth. There was obviously portraits of George King. It looked very, if you took some of these, you know, more esoteric posters off the wall, it just looked like any kind of, like, church that was probably built in the seventies. Like, in a small room with, like, an altar. There was a cross and, like a table, like an offering table and those kinds of things. But it's just, you know, you look.

57:01 Kayla: You look three inches to the side, and it's like, oh, there's like, there's a weird altar, a quote unquote weird altar to, like, the six adepts, and there's this guy named George King. And, like, you can you take some things out. It looks like any other church. You add some things in, it looks exactly like what? Like a stereotypical cult depiction would be on, like, a tv show. Chris: Yeah. It even had, like, that, like, cult magenta color to it. You know what I mean? It has, like, the interior was painted. I mean, it was very beautiful, don't get me wrong, but it had that sort of vibe to it, for sure. And it also is very much, I'll say this, like an amalgamous. I guess that's kind of what you were saying, but it was very much an amalgam of, like, you know, if you just look at the altar, you're like, that could almost be Catholic. But then you look to the side, and you're like, wait, am I back at srf? Because I see all these same pictures of these yogis. And then you look to the other side, and it's like, oh, there's a Christmas tree that's decorated like a normal Christian Christmas tree. Okay.

57:56 Chris: And then you look just to the side of that, and you have, like you said, the pictures of, like, you know, some of the cosmological things like the sun and the galaxy and whatnot. So it was just like this very much an amalgam of these different concepts. Kayla: There was also a very beautiful piece of art that I wasn't going to talk about until I saw that images of it have been shared by the society itself on the Internet. There was a particularly striking piece of art where it was depicting George King coming into contact with, like, I think it was. And I could be describing this incorrectly, but coming into contact with the life force of the planet. Chris: So this was kind of like, yeah, I remember that. Kayla: Yeah, he had projected down into where, like, the life force of the planet is held. And the artist's rendering. And this is where he saw, like, oh, you know, how. How small we are compared to, like, the mighty earth. And the artist rendering was this tiny, tiny, minuscule silhouette of a man before this grand staircase and enormous doors. And behind the doors are just, like, flames the size of mountains.

59:04 Chris: And it was tendrils of light, just sort of like, yeah, it was a. Kayla: Very, very striking image, and I think that's a very important image for this religion, because, again, it's. Chris: And also, if you've played Final Fantasy VII, like. Cause that's basically the plot. Kayla: It was very cool. So that was our first. That was our first visit. How about our second visit? Chris: So before I talk about the second visit, I just want to say, like, how accommodating and nice these folks were. And as they were explaining stuff, I definitely got the impression that they cared more about the service than about any one piece of the dogma. In fact, I think the reverend explicitly said something to that effect where it's like, you know, kind of like everything, every religion at the end of the day is kind of about service to your fellow man. Like, whether you believe, you know, something specific about Hinduism or Islam or, you know, aliens in a UFO. Like, it still kind of comes back to that. So I definitely got that impression from them that, like, the. The base, the fundamental part of their religion that's important at the end of the day is that service aspect.

1:00:17 Kayla: He shared a quote with us from George King that. I don't recall exactly how it went, but essentially boiled down to if your belief, if you have a choice between believing in goodness and believing in God, and you can only pick one, go with goodness, because it's the same thing that has stuck with me as something that they very strongly believe in. Yeah, they spent. I mean, they spent at least a half an hour with us, you know, out of their own time to show us. Show us their space and to share with us their beliefs. It was very. And we, you know, we didn't disclose, like, hey, we're here, so we can talk about it on our podcast. So they were very accommodating to chat with us. People who just wanted, you know, were there to learn, which is what were there for.

1:01:01 Chris: Yeah. And when we left, were like, man, they're so nice. Let's. Maybe we should join them. I don't know. It's not that bad. So then we decided to go again for one of their services. It was their Sunday service. Kayla: Sunday divine services. Chris: Yeah. We had missed the, you know, the prayer power thing. We were like, well, we'd like to see an actual, you know, etherea society in action. So went to that as. As a former Catholic or current Catholic, whatever catholic ish person, you were raised catholic. There were some similarities. I mean, like, certainly the garments that the. The guys running the service were wearing. Kayla: They were wearing different colored robes, and the robes, I learned later, indicate, like, kind of your level in the church kind of thing.

1:01:48 Chris: Yeah. And those rang a bell to me in terms of Catholicism, kind of has similar priests wear similar looking robes. And then the format. Right there was sort of like a sermon at the beginning, and then there were a lot of. They played a lot of recordings of George King channeling Jesus, which is really cool. Kayla: We got to hear Jesus talk. Chris: Yeah, we got to hear Jesus talk, you guys. So that's pretty cool. Yeah, I'm not sure if that's typical or if that's because it's the Christmas season. Like, they definitely had a lot of, like, this particular service was. I don't say it was, like, dedicated to the Christmas season, but kind of. They talked a lot about Christmas, as.

1:02:30 Kayla: Far as I know. They do share recordings from George King every Sunday divine service. I don't know if they share George King speaking as Jesus every Sunday divine service. Chris: Right. And there was definitely some George King that they shared where he specifically went into, like, hey, we should try to maintain the Christmas spirit the whole year round, and then we'd all be a lot better off. Right. So. So maybe they don't play that every single time. That definitely seems, like, on theme with Christmas. But anyway, yeah, I don't know. They also, like, in Catholicism, you might have a en masse, you might have a versatile response from the congregation that's like, you know, singing or maybe some sort of, like, you know, prayer response, like, and also with you or something like that. Right. In the etherea, they had similar stuff with the etherea society service, except they would do mudras.

1:03:23 Kayla: So there. And as part of their service, there are different mantras and mudras used. So we, as, you know, people who are not initiated into the society, were handed, like, information sheets that said, during the times in which we use the mantras and the mudras, please do not try to imitate these. Like, you need to be initiated into the society to use these. So please simply sit with your hands in your lap. Chris: By the way, I thought that was so cool that they, like, had. They were, like, ready to go for newcomers, they were like, here's this laminated handout that they just handed to us, like, immediately, I was like, it helped me so much. Kayla: We were welcomed to join in the prayer hand gesture, which was just kind of, like, raising your hands up. You and I chose to, with our hands on our laps, just kind of, like, be as respectful as we could be. But, yeah, there was usage of specific chants, prayer words, mudras. And I thought it was interesting how specific they were about, please don't engage in this unless you have been initiated into it.

1:04:31 Chris: Mm. Right. Which I probably would have been, like, too scared to do it anyway, so I kind of appreciated that they were like, just don't do it. It's not respectful. I'm, like, done. Kayla: My favorite part, though, was that instead of singing, like, catholic hymns, because it was a Christmas carol service, we sang. Chris: Christmas songs, but they were like, didn't we sing, like, there was. It wasn't like, jingle bells. It was like, hark, the herald, right? Kayla: Yeah, it was like, chris. Like, christian Christmas songs. Chris: Yeah, it was very interesting. Yeah, they gave us a handout for the songs they were gonna sing, too. And there was a part where they, like, one song referenced son of God, and they crossed that out and wrote. What did they write?

1:05:15 Kayla: In some place of light. Chris: Light of God. Kayla: Yeah. Chris: Yeah. I felt like that was. That was pretty interesting. Kayla: They don't. They don't believe that Jesus is the only son of God. They essentially believe that, like, everything is the son of God, because we are all, like, you know, everything goes back to God, so there is no one true son of God. So that's why they crossed out son of God and wrote light of God. Chris: And that's including, like, you and me, right? Like, everyone. Kayla: Yes, everyone. I think maybe everything. Yeah. Chris: Yeah. And, like, it. We talked about this before, but just, like, how syncretizing everything is here in this religion. Like, I said the word amalgam before, but hearing the mudras and then, like, going to, like, a Christmas. Like, a Christian y Christmas carol right after that, like, really kind of hammered that home. Right. Like, it felt very. It was just a really interesting service in that regard.

1:06:05 Kayla: Right. I think that one of my biggest takeaways, though, amongst everything we experienced, amongst, like, all of the weirdness, you know, seeing the kind of bizarre looking altar to George King and this altar to the adepts and the robes that were different than what I was used to, and portraits of the planets and portraits of George King, seeing the life force of the earth, all of this very culty atmosphere and the chanting and the singing and all of this. My biggest takeaway was that it was essentially like any other church service I ever attended, in that I got bored. I got bored. At some points, I got bored. And I don't mean that in, like, a bad way or an offensive way or this should have been more exciting.

1:06:57 Kayla: I just mean it in the way of, like, a lot of church is listening to sermon and listening to, you know, listening to these lessons and listening to these teachings, which are, by nature, kind of dry and kind of. Chris: Well, they're very, like. They're almost meditative. Right? Like, I kind of got the same impression. And even in. Again, just to compare it to what I know, Catholicism. Like, when you're listening to the sermon, you're like, okay, I'm engaged. Like, you know, this guy's saying stuff. He's telling a narrative, whatever. I'm pretty engaged. When the mass switches over to. And it's a pretty long section of the mass. It's like, most of the mass switches over to the, like, ritualized process stuff where it's like, you say this, you do this prayer, then you say this, then you sing this song, then you say this. When you get to that part of it, that's when you're, like, after a little while, you kind of go like, oh, my God, I'm tuning out a little bit.

1:07:51 Chris: And I kind of felt that here where at the beginning I was engaged and everything, and then they kind of switched to this very processy, ritualized part of it, and I kind of got a little bit of that same feeling. Kayla: Right. It was like were kind of going into this thing, like, feeling like, ooh, what crazy thing are we getting into here? And then it was just. It was a church service. It was service. Yeah, it was a church service. Chris: And, like, at the end of the day, like, really not any weirder than, like, catholic church. I mean, catholic church. Kayla: I didn't eat any. I didn't eat anybody. Chris: Yeah. I didn't drink any. I didn't literally drink blood, which is what you do in a catholic church service. So, like, maybe it's less weird. Kayla: Yeah, it's definitely there. It's not weirder. For sure. You are correct. And it just. I know I've said it already, but, like, it was just interesting how this really kind of had all of the, like, all of the trappings of a cult, like, all of the signifiers in, like, ritual and an atmosphere, and then ended up just kind of being like, it's functionally the same thing as a mass. Like, it's functionally the same thing as.

1:08:52 Chris: Yeah. Kayla: Now, I said at the top of the episode, there was something different about the etherea society than other UFO religions, that there's something different about it, something unlike Scientology or heaven's gate or realism. Like, there's a. There's a twist here. There's a catch. The catch is that the etherea society is uncontroversial. Chris: Whoa. Kayla: No controversies, no scandals, no criminal investigations or sex abuse or shady dealings. Chris: Maybe compounds where they, like, improperly imprison people. Kayla: They're not disappearing anybody's wives. They're not. Yeah, there's no boats where people are, you know, losing years off their lives. This is the general consensus among people who study new religious movements and people in the anti cult movement. Like, if you go on cult education.

1:09:47 Chris: Institute, that's the Rick Allen Ross. Kayla: Correct. Chris: Right. Kayla: And they're kind of like, we've talked about on the show before. They're a little more hawkish than, like, you or I would be in terms of, like, being critical of cult like groups. And there's really no info about the etherea society there, except for this exists. Chris: Yeah. I mean, if something bad exists, something. If there was something bad out there, I am pretty certain that Cei would latch onto it and put it on their site. Kayla: So how is this possible? They believe in an end of the world rapture archetype, but it's somehow nice?

1:10:27 Chris: Before we even talk about, how is this possible? I want to also acknowledge how I felt when we got into the car after the first meeting. I was like, I was gonna say to you before you told me all of this, and you told me some of this information. You're telling me right now that they're uncontroversial, they're unproblematic. If you hadn't said that, I was about to be like, man, these guys are, like, really nice. Like, they. Like, they just, like, gave us a bunch of information. Like, they let us look at their. Their church. Like, they're very friendly. Like, I kind of. I hope we can do an okay job with this episode. Like, I hope we're not gonna, like, just take a dump on them too much. Like, you know, like, they're. They're just nice. Chris: And then you're like, then you said that, and I was like, oh, yeah, that totally tracks with how they treated us as strangers coming to their place.

1:11:13 Kayla: And it's something I'm going to talk a little bit about, specifically their rapture again. And it's something that, when we first got there, were speaking with one of the followers. She explained she kind of hinted a little bit to this kind of end of the world stuff, but she explained she was very emphatic about it, but nobody is lost. No one, and nothing is ever lost. So, you know, she kind of talked about that thing of, like, yes, there will be people who evolve and ascend, and there will be people who need to continue their journey elsewhere, but no one has ever lost. And I just. That feels like a different. Kayla: That just feels different than some of the other rapture type stories in various religions of, like, you better believe, or else the rapture is going to happen and you're going to be thrown into, like, a hellfire lake and suffer for all eternity. Like, there's just a difference there that makes me feel better in my body totally.

1:12:02 Chris: It's absent, like, the judgment element that is present in basically everything else. Right. Kayla: There's this author, and he's also a professor of religion at Lake Forest. His name's Benjamin Zeller, and he wrote something called apocalyptic thought in UFO religions. And he says king believed there would not be a catastrophic end to the world, but that the planet was on the verge of a new millennium of peace and enlightenment in the age of Aquarius. And so the idea is that, like, even if you miss out on an enlightened rapturing at first, you always have the opportunity to eventually get there. You are on this journey. You will get there. It's just such a positive. Slower, fast. Chris: Yeah, yeah. I like that.

1:12:46 Kayla: As far as we know and as far as everyone else out there knows, there's not these huge scandals that some other UFO religions and UFO adjacent religions have. Like, again, we've talked about the abuses of Scientology. We've talked about the mass suicide and, like, alleged brainwashing at heaven's gate. As far as we know, this does not exist in this society. There's. There's not these, like, big, huge, widespread, abusive scandals. But I will say, like most other new age groups, of course there's going to be some snags that, like, aren't the best, but I just are not on the level of bad that, like, we've seen with some of these groups. And so let's talk about those snags just so we're not sitting here with fawning, even though I kind of want to fawn.

1:13:30 Chris: So, first of all, look, nothing. Yeah. If they were completely perfect, then I would be a little. That would be a little sus. In its own. Right. Kayla: Right. First of all, it does cost money to be part of this group. So there's, you know, a money aspect. Do we see that with Scientology? Like, you have to keep paying money to ascend in the church. You know, you spend $200,000. Or, like, with SRF, a lot of things were kind of, like, behind a paywall. That's a little bit here. It's definitely. Chris: Is it a lot of money? Because. Okay, their compound or whatever. I don't know if I want to call it compound, but their property in Hollywood was, like, pretty big and pretty nice. Kayla: Yeah. So I don't know how they do the. I don't know how they get the money for it. I really don't. And, like, I don't. A lot of followers. And I. You know, this is coming just from followers, but a lot of followers will say that, you know, George King specifically did not want this to be cost prohibitive, and he specifically, like, did not become rich off of this. He, like, stayed not rich. I don't know if that's true, but they talk about on their membership page, which we'll get to in a second, they talk about how they've intentionally wanted this to remain accessible, financially accessible to people. So, you know, they are really big on selling King's books. Like, you actually have to purchase said books in order to begin your spiritual journey with them.

1:14:54 Kayla: So, like, if you want to attend Zoom services, you know, for either divine Sunday or twelve blessings, like, they have these in person, but they also have them on Zoom. If you want to attend on Zoom, say you don't live in Los Angeles. You do have to spend about $10 on a book called realize your inner potential, a spiritual handbook for a new age. Because they ask for a password in order to access the zoom, and the password is the first word on the first page of the index of the book. So you literally have to purchase. Chris: Oh, man, it's like old school copy protect. Kayla: Yeah, yeah, I did this. Of course I wanted to. I purchased the book. I read a little bit of it, and I also wanted to join their Facebook group, because they do have a Facebook group, and you have to enter this password in order to, you know, have access to it. And again, what I found on the Facebook was, like, pretty uncontroversial. Like, mostly just people sharing links to, like, their own guided meditations and, like, similar prayer events.

1:15:52 Chris: So that there wasn't, like, anti vaxx propaganda going on. Kayla: Not that I saw, and granted, most of my research, you know, the Facebook was very ancillary to my research, but it just seemed kind of nice and normal. Like, I got a big, huge welcome when I joined. It was like, a huge welcome in the group. It was just. And maybe that sounds like love bombing, and it's very possible. It is. I will say it is very possible. Chris: That we totally got love bombed. Kayla: It is very possible that, like, there's stuff going on under the surface that we just don't know about and hasn't come out yet. I really hope that's not the case. It would be very disappointing if that were the case, because so far, the evidence is not there and they seem so nice that I don't want it to be there.

1:16:32 Chris: Right. That would ruin theme of our season. We're supposed to cap off theme of the season with a nice cult. That would ruin theme. Kayla: There's also a membership level, like, tier system for the church. So it starts at. You can be what's called a friend of the Etherea Society, which is not really a membership. It's more just like, you give them dollar ten a year, and that gives you discounts on attending special events or on products like books and cds and, like, some other perks like that. And then the actual membership is, you can either become an associate or a full member, which, in addition to a fee, does require, like, different levels of commitment to the. To the organization. So it's like, if you become a member, you commit to observing. I think it's either June or July 8 is like their holiest day of the year. And then, like, 13 other, twelve or 13 other, like, holy days of the year, like, you have to observe these.

1:17:28 Kayla: You are expected to attend and participate in services and operation prayer power, in the pilgrimages, in workshops and seminars. Like, you're expected to attend those as much as you can. Full membership requires a higher level of commitment than associate membership, but both cost. You want to guess how much it costs? Chris: You said it was cheap, so, I don't know, $50? Kayla: It's $60 a year to be a membership. You do have to apply for membership. And then if you are accepted and initiated in, this is the coolest perk for full members, you are promised to be met by a higher echelon of spiritual entities upon your death who will aid in your transition. Not bad.

1:18:10 Chris: That seems pretty good. Yeah. Kayla: Seems worth spending $60 a year on. Chris: Yeah, that's less than Netflix. Kayla: The second less great thing is that a lot of the mythology behind George King is probably false. We obviously can't verify if he was actually talking to aliens. Like, that's something that is unverifiable and it is something that is almost certainly false. But we can cross check his various titles and accolades. So we talked a lot about his different titles up at the top, and like we said, he went by sir, and he had, you know, touted that he had the knighthood. But then you learned that the knighthood was not from the british royalty, which kind of like you think it would because he's a british guy, but it's actually from, like, an obscure, exiled byzantine family. British sociologist David V. Barrett reported that most of king's titles and degrees were not recognized by mainstream bodies.

1:19:06 Kayla: His doctorate came from the International Theological Seminary of California, which is unaccredited and considered to be a diploma mill. And George King touted being presented with letter patent of armorial bearings, also known as a grant of arms by blue mantle pursuivant, a herald of her Majesty's College of arms in England. Sounds pretty cool. Chris: Mm. Yep. A lot of names. Kayla: Again, turns out a grant of arms is something that is applied for. So you're not presented with it, you apply for it, and essentially, almost anyone can get it. Like, kind of. I see it's not as fancy as it sounds.

1:19:46 Chris: There's a lot of lab coding going on here, in that sense. Yeah. Kayla: He claimed to be a police chaplain, like we said, a chaplain for the American Federation of Police, but it was actually for the American Federation of Police and Concerned Citizens, which is basically a group that gives out memberships for Dollar 45, has a zero rating on charity navigator, is essentially a scam and does not have any official chaplains. And if you're not convinced already from Wikipedia, according to skeptic James Randy, George King's titles of Reverend, Doctor and Sir are unverified.

1:20:26 Chris: Well, since James Randy is our George King. Yeah, he's towards the center of my. Kayla: Trust network, and, like, scholars and academics who've done any research on this have said that, like, probably a lot of this, like, mythology and these titles were either consciously or subconsciously, like, ways for the society to legitimize their religion by, like, legitimizing George King and making him seem very important. And that's something that we see in a lot of, you know, new age religions. And I understand the intent there, but, you know, obfuscating or falsifying, not really cool. Especially when it's like, the dude's talking to aliens. Like, that's enough, man.

1:21:07 Chris: Yeah, yeah. But I get the, like, you know, if you want to broaden the appeal, though, right? Right. Then it behooves you to have, like, all of this other sort of, like, mainstream legitimization. Kayla: Right, right. Chris: So I. I mean, I wasn't, like, super convinced that he had all this stuff when you were telling me. So, like, this isn't. This isn't, like, what? Crazy, I guess. I mean, I definitely feel like. So the group definitely reveres him quite a bit. Like, his. His voice is, you know, first and foremost in their. In their Sunday service. Like, his voice was all over the place. You know, his portrait and his sayings are all over their compound. Like, it's. He is the charismatic leader. If we want to get into the criteria. Right. I can't sit here and say that. I can't honestly say that I truly believe that he did the things that he did. Like, you know, anybody listening to the show would. Would know that I'm a skeptic. Would know that you're a skeptic.

1:22:12 Chris: You know, if somebody from the etherea society is listening. You know, I don't. I think it would be disrespectful to you if I sat here and, you know, said, like, oh, you know, maybe. I don't know. You know, I don't think any of those things truly happened. So, again, not a surprise that you're saying these things about, like, you know, he didn't have some of these titles and whatnot. But to the extent that the group is, you know, again, unproblematic and service oriented at its core, do some of these things matter? Like, I don't know. Like, yes and no. I think where they do matter. I think where the risk is, like, anytime you have something like this, it's a powerful tool, and it's kind of like were talking about last week with EMDR, right?

1:23:01 Chris: That style of brain processing or whatever that, you know, trained psychologists can use. It's a powerful tool. And some people use it for ill. Scientology uses it for ill. Next team uses it for ill. I think that also applies to the. Some of the things that, you know, that a religion has that an etherea society would have. Right. These rituals, these. These chants, the charismatic leader, all that stuff. That's all tools that could be used for ill. It doesn't seem like they are using it for ill, which I think is, you know, is sort of, like, theme of this episode. Right? Like, it's like a cool cult, but it could be. Right. It's like, there's always, like, the risk for that. So, you know, that's the only call out I would make about, like, the. Ooh, like, is there something potentially bad here?

1:23:49 Kayla: Right. Chris: I don't think there's something bad now. I think that there are tools that could be used. Kayla: Right, right. It's like, those things aren't awesome, but, like, the group as a whole is uncontroversial. Like, it's. That's just how it be. Like, they just seem to mostly keep to themselves while being very open and welcoming to visitors and explorers. They just want to, like, share this message of service and goodness. They don't try to convince people to kill themselves. And it was kind of shocking to learn this. I didn't know that UFO religions could be unproblematic in this way. Chris: Yeah. When you describe all of those trappings, when you describe all those tools, your brain is like, oh, man, what kind of crazy shit do they do? And. Yeah. And so it's. It is shocking to, like, be like, oh, nothing, actually. They're just. They're just pretty chill.

1:24:41 Kayla: They sit and listen to recordings and do some prayers. Chris: And to answer your question from before, you know, why, like, why these? How were they able to do that? I'm not sure, but, like, I think that it has something to do with, like, I think it's a bit of, like, a recipe. I think one element is their openness. Right. They're not. They don't seem to be secretive. They don't seem to be hiding anything. People can come in and take a look. They're happy to talk to you. Like, there's. So there's the openness kind of, like, is just, like, a natural, you know, disinfectant for that kind of stuff. I think their focus. Their. Their fundamental focus on service, I think, is another thing. Chris: Like, you know, if you're putting the service ahead of the dogma, which it seems like they do, then I think that's another, you know, that's another big preventative for, like, you know, the kind of nefarious stuff these cults can get into. And I think I forget what the third thing was that I was going to say, so.

1:25:36 Kayla: Well, I have a third thing. Chris: Those two. Oh, good. Thank you. Kayla: And it's not as objective as what you've just said, but I think something that. I think something that I think feels different is I come away from this believing that George King and his followers believe in this, that this is. That this is an actual faith that they have and isn't, you know, isn't a scam or a grift or a tool to amass power. I do think that. And this, again, this is just the vibes that I'm getting could be wrong. Maybe there's something that makes it slightly different. I feel like George King believed that he was channeling and believed that he really was here to spread this message of service and goodness, and his followers believe a very similar thing. And granted, you know, I'm sure scientologists believe in Scientology and still manage to, like, be abusive.

1:26:32 Kayla: But I think that the true belief in the message, I think that's maybe part of it. If not. Chris: Yeah, I thought of my third thing, too. Kayla: Okay, so it's the fourth thing now. Chris: So that's the fourth thing. Just the content of their message is generally pretty positive. Right. The actual content of their beliefs. Like you said, they have this millenarian thing going on, but it's, like, fundamentally non judgmental. Right. It's fundamentally about, like, we'll all get there. Just keep trying, you know, like, versus. Well, some people are getting raptured and the other people are going to hell. Like, because their beliefs themselves seem to be this, like, non judgmental positive. Like, we're all going to get their optimistic message. I think that also factors in.

1:27:20 Kayla: Right. That makes sense. Chris: So they occult. Kayla: Yeah, that's. We. We know that they're weird. We know they're unproblematic. Chris: Definitely weird. Kayla: We need to go through our. Chris: If any. If any of you guys are listening, weird is good on this show. Kayla: Weird is good on this show. We. It's cult or just awesome is basically what it is. Cult are just great. Yeah, weird is good, but we need to determine if they are a cult or just weird. Chris: Yeah, we got to do the shtick. Let's do it. Kayla: Our first one is charismatic leader. Chris: Yes, yes, yes. Kayla: Is the leader king, or is the leader Aetherius? Chris: Oh, it's definitely king. Like, I. I think Aetherius is, like, the. The Trump in Qanon. Right. But, like, the charismatic leader is actually Q. Right. That's, like, the object of worship versus the, like, the actual leader. So. Hi. I'm gonna say yes. It's very high. Like, they. We've talked about this on this episode. He's everywhere. Like, they talk about him a lot. You're supposed to buy his book.

1:28:17 Kayla: They think he's an avatar. His portraits in the church. Chris: Now, I don't know. Like, I can't say too much of, like, how. Whether he's charismatic or not, like, you know, if we're talking about specifically, like, oh, man, does he, like, make me want to. Does he inspire me to go out and join or do things from the recordings? I don't know. Not really. He kind of had, like, an Alan Watts sort of, like, vibe going to him, but I didn't. I didn't feel like there was, like, a lot of, like, high energy charisma. I think it's mostly. Kayla: A lot of the followers do find his style of speaking very charismatic, or at least that's what they say. Like, there's a lot of, like, testimony of. I heard the recordings, and I was blown away. I heard the recordings, and everything rang true. I heard the recordings, and I knew this was the answer. And maybe that's a little bit of, like, you know, maybe there's something performative there, because I agree that he was more Alan Watts than, like, you know, somebody hyping you up before watching a live tape sitcom. But, yeah, you don't have to be.

1:29:15 Chris: A high energy, though. Like, you don't have to be high energy to be charismatic. To be influential to somebody's eardrums, like Alan Watts. I'm sure, like, most people that are Alan Watts fans would be like, oh, my God, he so cares better. Kayla: Right? So by a loose definition, yeah, absolutely. There's definitely a leader who charismatic a lot of people into following him, for sure. Chris: Hi. Kayla: Expected harm. Chris: I think that this is low with, like, careful. The tools are there, right? Kayla: Yes, it's absolutely low. I think that something that I have a little bit of worry about this group is that it would be very easy for somebody to. It would be very easy for somebody who is a member of the higher ups to amass power and, like, turn it into their own, like, cult. Like, if somebody stepped in and was like, and now I am channeling George King, and, like, it could become that. It has potential.

1:30:12 Chris: That's what I mean by the tools are there. Right? Like, if somebody became in charge that had less noble goals than just like, hey, like, everybody do service and we're gonna be open. If instead it, like, they had different goals, the tools are there for them to exploit and manipulate people. Kayla: I think still the expected harm is low, though. Chris: Yeah. Kayla: Presence of ritual high. Extremely high. One of the highest. Chris: I feel like we say that a lot. Like, the presence of ritual is so high on this. I feel like of all the criteria, that's the one that gets you in the door for us.

1:30:52 Kayla: Yeah, if there's ritual. But, I mean, especially for this, it's like, this is very classic ritual. Like, this is like, we go to church and we say mantras and we do mudras and we light a candle and listen to these recordings. We do the prayer power. Like, it's very ritualistic in that way. Chris: Right. Kayla: Super high niche within society. Chris: Oh, yeah. Very niche. Kayla: Yeah. Extraordinarily niche, maybe. I mean, a few thousand followers, maybe. Chris: Yeah. This is why, like, the niche criteria is why we're gonna call it a cult instead of a religion. Because otherwise it feels exact, like, from participating. Totally feels like a religion just going. Kayla: To church on a Sunday. Yeah. Antifactuality. Chris: Well, I mean, I don't think the things that they said happened.

1:31:37 Kayla: I agree. I agree. Is that all it takes to be antifactual, or is antifactual, like, being anti vaxx? Chris: Yeah. Kayla: Like, is antifactual just believing in weird stuff, or is antifactual being, like. And the real stuff is a lie? Chris: Well, the real stuff is a lie that falls under dogma for me. Okay. But there's still kind of, like, we still jam a couple different things into the antifactual discussion. Usually one is, like, usage of, like, logical fallacies and, you know, logical closed loops. You know, like, if somebody disagrees with us, it's because they're part of the, you know, cabal or whatever. Kayla: Right.

1:32:17 Chris: I didn't. I don't think there's too much of that. Aside from the, like, being disingenuous about George King's credentials. That, to me, falls under the, like, you know, process. Red flag. In terms of, like, the content red flag. I don't know if that's enough. Like, I definitely think the content in terms of, like, this person is from Mars and this one's from Venus. I don't think that's true. Kayla: Right. Chris: I don't know if that's. I feel like it's more important to not be disingenuous than it is to, like, have beliefs that are not true, because, like, I don't think that it's true that you drink blood at church either, so, you know.

1:33:01 Kayla: Sure, sure. So what are we saying? Medium? Chris: Medium. Kayla: Medium. Chris: Yeah, maybe. Maybe low. Medium to. Yeah. Okay. Kayla: Medium life consumption. Percentage of life consumed. I do get the sense just given. I do get the sense that, like, if you're in this, you're, like, in it. Like, okay. That. I think people might live there. I think people, like, you're committed to, like, you know, observing all of these different holidays and I going to all of these different events and, like, you. Chris: Know, they don't charge you that much money. Kayla: They don't. But it's not about the money. It's the percentage of your life that's going right. Well, so, like, the gentleman that we met, the reverend that we met, he began his. His spiritual journey in this organization with George King. And he was essentially George King's, like, one of his assistants, like, 24/7 kind of thing. I get the sense that, like, if you are in this, like, you are really in it.

1:34:07 Chris: Okay, so maybe this is high then. I. I think if it was. Yeah, it was the type of thing where, like, we could talk to some people there, and they're like, oh, yeah. We just, you know, have normal, everyday lives, and then we go to church on Sunday, then I'd be like, okay, well, that's not very high, but if people are, like, living in the compound and like, yeah, I don't know. I'll take your word for it on this one. Kayla: I'm gonna say it's at least medium. Chris: Okay. Kayla: Medium to high. Dogmatic beliefs. Chris: Yeah. This is where I think you were saying before, like, it doesn't seem that high. Like, in fact, it seems pretty low. Like, this is very, like, some of the other things, like SRF that we've talked about on the show seems very syncretizing. Right. It seems like, yeah, everybody's. Everybody is the same thing, and it's all like, we. That's why we're correct is because everybody is part of us.

1:34:54 Kayla: Right. Chris: So it's like. It's kind of sort of, like, anti dogmatic in a weird way. Kayla: Right. Chain of victims, did you feel like. Chris: You were being recruited? Kayla: I did not feel like I was being recruited. I do know that people. This is the kind of thing that's been around long enough that people get born into it. And, you know, when were there, there were kids at the. At the event that were at. At the service where were at. But it doesn't feel recruiting in that MLM way or it doesn't feel recruiting in that way. I don't know. I think I kind of, like, need more info. Chris: Yeah. It's also hard because, like, if we're saying it's not harmful, then it's not.

1:35:37 Kayla: Really. Chris: Should this criteria actually be, like, chain of. Kayla: Chain of recruiting or something? Chris: Yeah, like, the we. Okay, so where it came up was talking about mlms and also talking about QAnon, how, like, you know, once you become ensconced in all of this, like, conspiracy theory, you tend to tell people, like, you know, you should look into this and do your own research. Kayla: Right. Chris: So, by those standards, this. I didn't feel any of the, like. Yeah. I didn't feel pressured to. To join or to even to, like, learn more. It just felt like they were being open and friendly. Kayla: So we're gonna say, whoa. Chris: Yeah.

1:36:18 Kayla: And then finally, our last one. Safe or unsafe exit? Chris: I don't know. We walked out there pretty safely. Kayla: I mean, weren't members. I don't know if there's, like, an excommunication process. I do kind of get the sense that, like, there's probably quite a. They probably deal with a lot of people coming in, joining for a time, and then moving on. They probably have a lot of that. Chris: Right. Kayla: I probably need more information on this, but my gut says it's probably safe to exit. I don't think you're gonna. I just didn't get the vibe of, like, you're gonna be excommunicated here. Chris: Yeah, I didn't get that vibe either. Kayla: Maybe they're just hiding it really well. Chris: Yeah. I mean, to really know, we would have to ask ex members. Right.

1:36:58 Kayla: So it was high in charismatic leader, high in presence of ritual, high with niche, and then essentially low for the rest. Right? Chris: Yeah. So is it just weird? Kayla: I think. Chris: Well, it was medium. It was medium anti factuality. Kayla: Okay. Okay. I think it might be just weird. It's like. Chris: It looks so culty, though. Kayla: It looks like a cult. Like, it has all of those, like, signifiers. Chris: Like, it's got, like, the symbols and the robes. Kayla: I mean, it could be. It could be a beneficial cult, which we've had. We've had. We've talked about on the show before, or it could just be just weird. And the fact that it is, like, you know, not that it's not evil, it's not, like, nefarious saves it from being a cult.

1:37:50 Chris: I feel like we bucket beneficial cults into just weirds, right? Like, I feel like we tend to do that based on how the criteria. Kayla: Works or we have lack of it working. Deemed things nice cults. So is this a nice cult, or is it just weird? I kind of feel. Chris: I think it's a nice call. Kayla: You think it's a nice cult? I kind of think it's not just because of the. Actually, I don't know. I think it's a nice cult. Chris: I think it's been four seasons, guys, and we don't know how to do this. Kayla: I think it's really hard to look at something like this and go, that's not a cult just because it, like, it has all of those signifiers and tropes. Like, when. When lay people talk about, oh, it's a cult. Like, they're talking about this. You know what I mean? Like, they're.

1:38:31 Chris: Yeah, they're talking about, like that. Yeah, it's just. It has all of the, like, non bad stuff, right? Like, it doesn't have, like, the unsafe exit and the dogma and the whatever. But it does have charismatic leader, and it is very ritualistic, and they do have, you know, unorthodox beliefs. So. Kayla: Alien. Chris: Yeah, let's. Let's call it a. It's called a nice cultural cult. Kayla: Cult. So this is our last episode for season four, and were really excited that were able to go out and actually physically experience this particular group. Like, being able to observe a service and interact with the followers. It really did give us a much deeper insight than just reading about it. So we're kind of. We've been thinking about, you know, season five is coming up. It'll be sometime next year, what we want to do for that, and we're thinking that's actually something we'd like to do more of. You know, we've visited groups before. We've done it here. We've done it with best friends animal society, with the loving hut restaurant self realization fellowship. But we want to do more and kind of focus more on those experiential. Those experiential things.

1:39:38 Kayla: Like, we're lucky enough to live in a place that is chock full of cults and just full of cults, so. Chris: Full to the brim of cults. Kayla: We hope that we can bring that twist to you in season five. That's our goal. That's our goal right now. Chris: Yeah. Season four's theme was bringing sort of, like, more positive, more beneficial stories. I think we did an okay job at that. And so we wanted to kind of continue with the idea of, like, slightly theming things. And so that's our. That's what we decided for season five. Let us know what you guys think. Kayla: Did you want to talk about any of the ethics that we talked about while were making this episode that we're probably gonna be grappling with in season five?

1:40:22 Chris: Yeah, we will be grappling with that a lot. We had a long discussion in the car on the way to the Sunday server. The second time, went about, like, is this even ethical for us to do at all? And I'm. And I. And I still don't think that we have, like, a. Like, a. Like, a really definitive answer. I think we answered it for ourselves enough that were willing to still go to this service and do this episode. And I think that was the right call because it was a very interesting experience. I think what it comes down to, like, the only thing that I think is possibly unethical here is being there under circumstances that are, you know, that we're trying to, like, hide, like, oh, we're not actually interested in joining your church.

1:41:12 Chris: We're actually just going to be doing this for a podcast, but we're not telling you that we're podcasters. So that. That part felt disingenuous to me, potentially. I think the reason we felt like it was okay in the circumstance is because, like, we didn't announce what were there about either way. Like, weren't. And maybe that's, like, a little sus. I don't know, but I. It's not like were saying, like, hello, I am interested in your cult. Please let me know. Like, it wasn't that. Like, weren't saying one way or the other. We were just like, literally the first time were there was just, hey, this is a public thing. You can come watch this stuff. Anybody in the public can come watch this stuff. And so we're like, let's go watch this stuff. And then it just so happened that we met these people.

1:41:53 Chris: And so then I think that's kind of what created this. The sense of, like, ethical dilemma is like, well, should that have come up in conversation with them or. Because it didn't really come up. I don't know. But anyway, we ended up deciding that in this case, it was okay for us to attend a service that is open to the public and that we had not been specifically deceitful to individual people about what were doing. Kayla: So we'll see how that continues to shake out as we do more going to places and seeing things. Chris: Yeah, it's tough, right? Like, it's question.

1:42:33 Kayla: I'm grappling. Yeah, we're not journalists. We don't know. We were not professionals. You know, we're just having a podcast. And I think the. The question that I also grapple with, like, yes, I want to be authentic, and I want. I do not want to be deceitful. And also, you know, there's a version of this where we reached out to them ahead of time and said, hey, we're ahead doing this show. You know, can we talk to somebody there? Can somebody show us around? Can we attend a service? The. The issue that I see with that, while it is more upfront, it also runs into the possibility of, like, will we receive a different experience than a regular person going in might receive? Chris: Right, right. Kayla: So we'll have to figure out how to. How to grab. It'll probably just be as a case by case basis. We'll see.

1:43:19 Chris: Right. There's less spontaneity, maybe less, you know, up authenticity if there's like, okay, well, this is a. This is a journalist. This is a podcaster. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you guys have any opinion on that, let us know what you think. Our listeners, you know, feel free to shoot us an email, cultorjustweirdmail.com, or, you know, ping us on twitter and, you know, and participate in that debate, because, like, we may not be right about this. You know, we may have done something unethical with this episode, but. But I'm curious as to what you guys think, too. Kayla: So that's a wrap on season four of culture. Just weird. We wanted to approach this season with our mental health in mind, and I think we succeeded at not falling down a dark pit of despair. I hope our listeners had a similar experience. And it turns out that it's possible to engage in the weird and the woo without traveling to the dark side. The etherea society was kind of the perfect encapsulation of that idea. A group that has all the trappings of a cult, all the tools, like you said, of becoming something nefarious, but turns out to just be a kind of nice, unassuming, just weird. Or nice cult, I guess, is what we said.

1:44:33 Kayla: And if somewhere down the line, a scandal does come out about this group, like we said, we'll be really sad and we'll be disappointed, but in the meantime, we're just going to enjoy it. This is Kayla, and this is Chris, and this has been season four of cult. Or we know how to do a. Chris: Podcast, go cult or just weird.