cultists: Rebecca Kirsch, Pam Westergard, Alyssa Ottum, Ryan Quinn, Paul Sweeney, Erin Bratu, Liz T, Lianne Cole, Samantha Bayliff, Katie Larimer, Fio H, Jessica Senk, Proper Gander, Kelly Smith Upton

Transcript

0:00 Chris: Typical. Kayla: Now guess what we're doing. Chris: Recording correctly. Kayla: Recording correctly. Chris: I saw little bits in my teeth from dinner. Kayla: Just make sure you're not going to. Chris: Make a couple after that. Kayla: No, we're actually testing the sound. So make sound that you're going to make, which isn't that. Chris: It's probably a little bit of that. Kayla: All right, so are you ready to. Chris: Start the actual episode? Kayla: Yes. Chris: Yes. Aside from the aforementioned little bits in my teeth. Kayla: So we're not starting the episode? Chris: No, we are. This is it. Kayla: That's not aforementioned. There's no aforementioned. That was not part of the episode. That was the sound test. There is no aforementioned. Chris: I use sound test. Footage. Tape. It's not footage. Right. If it's audio, it's not footage. No.

0:44 Kayla: Now we're really starting. Pretend as if nothing we have recorded before this exact moment has happened. Chris: But why can't I use that stuff? I think it sounded fine. Kayla: We're not going. Chris: I won't do the lip smacking. Kayla: It's gross. Chris: But I think people need to know that I have a few bits of food in my teeth from dinner. Kayla: Maybe you should floss. Chris: Well, I will after. I mean, I floss. Kayla: You'll only floss if I give you a flosser. Chris: That is not true. I floss almost every night now of my own accord. Kayla: Really? Chris: Yes. Kayla: I didn't know that. Chris: Yeah. Yeah. You're welcome. Kayla: Why am I welcome? Chris: I don't know. Anyway, we should do this up front. Where? Culture just weird. Kayla: Hi.

1:24 Chris: Because I was just listening to our last episode and it took us forever to say that and it sounded funny. Kayla: This is the cult or just weird podcast. I'm Kayla. Chris: And I am Chris. Kayla: You can find us on the Internet in various social medias. Cult or just weird? You can email us culturejswearmail.com. Chris: We'Re on Twitter. We're on Facebook. Barely. We're on instagram. Instagram. Oh, I just. Kayla: We're also on Reddit, but it's secret. Chris: Are we on? Oh, well, I mean, like, we post. Kayla: Individuals are on Reddit. Chris: Yeah. Kayla: On our personal Reddit account. Chris: Well, because I don't think it's very, I don't know, what's the word? Ethical. Kayla: If you can find us on Reddit. Chris: Own subreddit for your own podcast, go. Kayla: Find our reddits and then look at our post or comment.

2:06 Chris: Just don't worry about Reddit. But you should worry about Instagram because we do post a bunch of pictures, images, whatever, supporting content. Whenever we do an episode. Kayla: So, like, just, like, free bonus content, basically. Chris: Yeah, I know. We should charge people. Kayla: We're gonna start charging for our instagram. Chris: Somebody actually just pinged me on Twitter and was like, where's those pictures you were talking about in the Mary Kay episode? Kayla: Oh, baby. Chris: And I was like, oh, I'm so glad that you asked. Here's a free advertisement for a link to our instagram. Oh, and then, of course. Kayla: Did you say it like that? Chris: Yeah, I said it like that on Twitter. I said it in that accent. I typed it in that accent. Also. Patreon. Actually, that's the most important one, because that one is money.

2:48 Kayla: Please, we have a Patreon. It's culture. Just weird. The only reason that we, like, have actually started talking about it is because we have actually started using it now. We did a little bit. We had some good content on there. Blah, blah, blah. And the pandemic hit. We started to give our content for free. I started to fall off on my duties. Chris: Yeah. I mean, once we stopped charging for it, were like, who gives a shit? Kayla: No, I just got overwhelmed with the pandemic. Chris: Oh, yeah, that's. Kayla: Now we're still. Still in the pandemic, but we have vaccines, so we're able to really give the Patreon the attention it deserves. Chris: Yeah. I mean, it naturally follows, right, that getting vaccines would make us better at producing content for Patreon.

3:29 Kayla: Yeah, that's Bill Gates entire planet. Chris: That's logical and everything, but we are. So the first episode we did of the season, our bonus content was all about because we always see trust network on the show. And if you really want to know what that means, you gotta go listen to our Patreon. But basically it just means the sources you trust and how those all sort of interconnect, how it's a network, how it's not just people and things that you trust, but how it's networked together. Ooh, crazy. And then the second episode we did bonus content for, we talked about trying to solve systemic, societal scale problems at an individual. You should do this and shouldn't do that. Feel bad about yourself level.

4:11 Kayla: Just think about that most recent Vox article about how all of our pets are contributing to climate change, when in reality, it's as little as 100 companies that are creating 71% of all climate. Is it emissions? Carbon emissions? Chris: I believe it's carbon emissions. Kayla: But don't worry, feeding your pet meat a meat diet is not gonna make the climate change. So shut up off. Chris: It's okay to have pets, but that's basically what that's about, right? Kayla: We're not going to fix climate change. Chris: By telling individuals, shaming individual people about having a dog, which is something humans have done forever, literally. And instead, let's look at where 70% of the actual emissions come from and work towards solutions there. Anyway, we talk a little bit about that on our Patreon because it's relevant to the vaccine discussion as well. So head on over public health versus private choice, that sort of thing.

5:03 Kayla: Head over to our patreon, check out our Patreon tent, and then come back here and listen to the episodes. Okay, shut up about the patreon. Chris: Yeah. So what do you got for me today? Anything? Any other business before we. When do we do the. So. Okay, here's what I keep saying. Cold open, but it's actually just the cold open is the part before the music, but I keep saying it's time for the cold open. Kayla: You're an idiot. Chris: And then I play the music. Kayla: Yeah, you're wrong. Chris: I'm stupid and dumb. Kayla: Yeah, it's okay. We all are. Chris: But we'll throw it somewhere in there. Hopefully what you have for me today is much shorter because last episode was almost 4 hours.

5:44 Kayla: Hold on to your butts. Actually, you don't really need to wait. Chris: Hold on to my butt? Does that mean it's gonna be another 4 hours? Kayla: You don't need to hold on to your butts. Chris: Oh, okay. I'm letting go of my butt. Kayla: We're taking a little break from Chris. We're still. We are still brand new to season three of this show, but as you've mentioned, we've already gotten pretty serious and heavy here. Yeah, sorry, we talked about the anti vaxx movements, dissected the topic for literally hours. And I don't think I need to remind our listeners that this came on the heels of our five part QAnon series, which was also heavy, actually, now. Chris: That I think about it. Yeah, it's been so seven full episodes, and long ones at that, of just intensity that we've just talked about. Like, intense, scary, depressing. The last time we talked about something fun was what? Like in October or something?

6:36 Kayla: I don't even know. Chris: Oh, God. Kayla: But. Well, both of these groups, both the anti vax movement and the QAnon movement groups, these were exacerbated by Covid-19 in some dangerous ways. Right? They were also groups that were both exacerbated by Facebook and Facebook groups in some dangerous ways. Right? Well, what if I told you that today we are also going to talk about a topic that was made worse by Covid-19 a topic that also touches on the dangers of Facebook and its groups. How would you feel about that? Chris: Made worse by Covid-19 is this about people making bread? Kayla: Yes. We're talking about the cult of bread. No, not totally dissimilar.

7:19 Chris: Cause it's get out yeast. Kayla: So you'd feel like bread about that? Chris: Yeah, I'd feel like bread. Kayla: I feel like bread. Chris: Soft and warm. Kayla: Let me give you one last bit of context before we dive in. Unlike the last few topics we've discussed on this show, which were made worse by Covid and Facebook, this one is largely harmless and, dare I say, even fun. Dare I say, thank you, even fun? Chris: I don't know. I wouldn't dare say that. Nothing. I mean, what is fun? Kayla: I guess we're about to find out. So I came upon this topic because apparently earlier this year, a question was trending on the Internet, on TikTok, specifically, and it's a question we here at the podcast, obviously love what's something that's not a cult but seems like a cult.

8:04 Chris: Oh, yeah. I feel like I remember trending. Yeah, yeah. Kayla: Such a rich. Such a rich question. Chris: Yes. I mean, it's generated running three years now of our episode. Kayla: There's just so many ways it can go. And the way that this one is going was set off by an article written about one particular answer to this question. Let me read you the headline, and then we'll start at the beginning. From Michelle Santiago Cortez at Refinery 29, the accidental sex couch tearing Facebook mom groups apart. Chris: Wait, what?

9:17 Kayla: Couch tearing Facebook mom groups apart. What is an accidental sex couch? You might ask, where exactly is the cult not a cult aspect? You might ask. Don't worry, we will get to that. But for now, let's just take a few steps back and start with this question. Christopher? Chris: Yes. Kayla: Have you ever heard of the nuggethe? Chris: Then wait, hold on. What about the accidental sex couch? Kayla: We'll get to that. Chris: Is our couch accidentally sex or is it regular? Kayla: I think not. Because I feel like a couch from Ikea is. Definitely has the intent of sex being done upon it.

9:58 Chris: Okay, so it's an intentional sex couch. All right, everything's super clear now. And then, as far as nuggets, the only nuggets I'm really familiar with are gold nuggets, which I think were a thing in the gold rush, and chicken nuggets. Kayla: What about Butt nugget? Chris: Butt nugget was a popular thing to a popular insult to hurl at my friends when I was, like, nine. Kayla: None of these nuggets are the nugget that we are talking about today, okay? This is the nugget. TM. Actually, I don't know if it's TM. I'm assuming it's TMD. It's gotta be TM'd. So, for the purpose of this episode, we will be discussing the nugget that is the children's couch, which is described on the Nuggets website as, quote, part furniture, part toy, and all around the best thing to happen at playtime since, well, ever.

10:41 Chris: Wait, what's the nugget? Kayla: It's the couch. It's a children's couch. Chris: Oh, that's the name of the couch. Kayla: Nugget is the children's couch. Chris: Okay. Kayla: The nugget with a capital N. Nugget. Buzzfeed described the piece of furniture as foam blocks covered in micro suede fabric that together form a couch, but separately, can be used fort building, jumping, or general toddler mayhem. So picture two triangular foam blocks pillows sitting atop a thin rectangular foam block cushion sitting atop a thick rectangular foam block base that makes a low to the ground modular couch. You know, why don't you go ahead and I would invite you to google the nugget and just see a picture of it so you can see what it looks like for yourself.

11:23 Chris: All right, I'm going to take a look at this here again. We will obviously put this on our instagram. Okay, so now I have several pictures here. Now is this. Oh, okay, I see. That's not exactly what I was picturing. Kayla: Let me see it. Chris: It's like two sandwiches next to each other and then some triangle cushions sitting on top. Kayla: Yeah. Chris: Okay. Kayla: Don't google any more pictures. Cause I don't want you to get spoiled. Chris: Okay. Kayla: The nugget couch comes in multiple colors, like koala submarine, blackbeard, Atlantis, redwood, and sweet pea. Chris: No, none of those are colors. Get right the fuck out of there. Kayla: They're colors for children. The website where you can buy them or not, we'll get to that. Features a collection of photos with children and their families using the couches as intended for nap time or lounging, or configuring the modular couches in an endless number of ways to accommodate a child's imagination during playtime. So with the nugget, you can build a fort, you can build a pirate ship. You can just build a random pile to jump on. You get one.

12:26 Chris: That sounds awesome. I was actually gonna say that about the picture that I found here is that it does look like. Yeah, you can, like, take these individual chunks of it apart and move them around. Kayla: It looks like a lot of fun. Yeah, it looks like a lot of fun. Chris: Give me one. Kayla: Like, if you're a little kid with a big imagination, this is a fun toy that doubles as a comfy piece of furniture. Yes, please. I will tell you the end. Chris: This is awesome. Kayla: The end. I will tell you why I'm not going to buy one for you. Costs $229. Chris: Holy. Kayla: I mean, like, that's not that much money for a little couch, but still, I'm like, $229. Chris: That's a lot of dollars for, like, a couch. That makes sense. But for a toy, for what I just saw on this image on Google, it's, like, just some cushions. It's cool, but it's just some cushions.

13:13 Kayla: And with that price point, we are talking about a product for children that's generally really only accessible to middle and upper class families. And it kind of has an aesthetic that goes along with that, whatever that might mean to you. It's like, this is not necessarily being in. It's not in Gwyneth Paltrow's household, but it's certainly instagram influencer households. You know what I mean? Chris: Yeah. Kayla: Like, Chip and Joanna Gaines definitely have one. Chris: I don't know who those people are. Kayla: They are the greatest. They had a home improvement television series where he was the builder and she was the interior designer, and now they have an entire television network. They're the ones that they repurposed their, like, home building show where the first version of it was, they just built the homes, and then they did a second version of it where they didn't shoot any new footage. Instead, they used all the same footage and just reconfigured it to be about the design. They're amazing.

14:05 Chris: So they made two tv shows out of the same footage? Kayla: Yes. Chris: Badass. Kayla: Yes. Chris: From a producer standpoint, anyway. Yes. Kayla: At this point, you might still have a lot of questions. Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Kayla: Why are we talking about a children's couch on a cult podcast? Chris: Yeah. Kayla: Where's the cult aspect? Chris: Yeah. Kayla: Do I not have anything better to talk about? Well, is this episode just an ad? Chris: Oh, are they giving if. I mean, if they gave us a free couch, a free nugget, or a free set of cushions or whatever? Kayla: Let's keep going. As I took on the research for this episode, I started coming across headlines that made me realize, okay, yes, this is actually definitely something we can talk about on this show. The headlines were things like, quote, why are moms freaking out over this $400 toddler couch? The nugget is wildly difficult to buy. What's the hype? Nugget couches are the hit of the pandemic. What is the nugget couch? The cult favorite and controversial sensation taking over TikTok. And of course, the accidental sex couch tearing Facebook mom groups apart.

15:06 Chris: Yeah, that's the headline that I'm most. Kayla: That's my favorite. It is my favorite. Chris: How intrigued by. Kayla: These are just a tiny selection of headlines related to this piece of children's furniture. So why the hell are there dozens and dozens of articles being written about this couch for kids? I feel like I'm asking a lot of questions and answering none of them, but I'm gonna continue. Chris: Yeah, thanks a lot, Kayla. I am wondering these same things. I want you to tell me the answers. Kayla: Why is this couch such a big deal? Why does everyone want one? What does it have to do with sex? I find myself asking these questions about something so seemingly mundane, and then I know, okay, this is a proper topic for the show. First, let's get a little background on the nugget, what it is and why it became such a big deal. The Nugget couch company, which I think is called Nugget comfort, but I think I just refer to it as nugget throughout this Nugget, Inc. The Nugget company was founded by three University of North Carolina Chapel Hill students, Hannah Fussell, Ryan Coco, and David Barron, who's the now CEO. He was, like, the original guy behind it.

16:08 Kayla: Barron, as a college student in 2012, felt he could improve upon the Futon after witnessing so many futons tossed in the trash at his college campus. Chris: Futons are popular at college, though. Kayla: That's cause they're so cheap. I look at beds and I'm like, I'll just get a futon. Why do I need a bed? Yeah, futon. Chris: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Kayla: Why do I need a couch? Futon? Chris: I mean, when I was in college, I was like, why do I even need an apartment? I could just live with this. I could just stick a futon in this public storage unit, and bada bing. Kayla: Bada boom, bada binge. So Baron experimented on a prototype for a year after college on his, you know, Futon better than Futon. Chris: Futon plus. Kayla: Futon plus. Chris: He plus won it. Kayla: And thus, the first nugget was born, which he, of course, sold to other local college students. Barron then roped his friend Coco in to help run the company. They launched a Kickstarter in 2014 and raised $84,000.

16:59 Chris: Holy shit. Kayla: From 400 prospective buyers and began building the couches. So Baron and Coco would assemble foam and fabric shipped in from elsewhere across the globe and package, and then ship out the orders to customers. Just the tools. Chris: They were actually making these things, too. Kayla: So I think I get into more later. But, like, the actual foam pieces were made in one place, the fabric was made in one place, and it was all sent to them at their warehouse in North Carolina. And they assembled them, which is these two dudes. These two dudes were just assembled them and then shipped them out themselves. Yeah. So they were fulfilling those orders themselves. Chris: Wow. Kayla: After, of course, utilizing the labor of folks elsewhere in the right and then shipping the orders. But the nugget didn't finally become what it is today until Coco's girlfriend, Hannah Fussell, joined the team. Fussell was a public school teacher and thought maybe her students would enjoy one of these couches. And she taught elementary school to students, and so she brought one to the classroom.

17:56 Chris: Okay. Kayla: And they fucking loved it. Chris: Yeah, of course. Because, of course it's cool looking. It's modular. It has things like blackbeard colors. Kayla: Apparently, you can make a fort out of it. Of course you're gonna love it. It's really comfy. Chris: That's true. It does have all the things. It's got comfy, it's got modular. Kayla: Yeah. I mean, it's got squares, it's got triangles. Chris: Yeah. The only other thing you really need is if, like, if it was edible. Kayla: Yeah. Some people eat couch cushions. You don't know. So Fussell kind of went, okay, no, this is not a futon for college students. This is a play couch for kids. Let's go. Chris: That's smart. See, sometimes it's like you pivot like that and all of a sudden something takes off. It's very intelligent.

18:39 Kayla: That's what happened. So her input, her seeing how her students reacted, and her coming to cocoa and bear with this input made them all realize, yeah, this is perfect for children's playrooms, not college dorm rooms. Chris: Let's go. Kayla: So, of course, after this, Fussell quit her job and joined the company as one of the founders, and she is responsible for helping sheep Nugget's current look with the more fun range of colors that we've been talking about, like before, I think they were like, white and beige and like, meh. Chris: Yeah. Who cares? Yeah, I want, like. Kayla: I want koala. Chris: I want, like, Sonora. Kayla: No, kids don't care about Sonora. They want stardust and. Chris: Oh, that's blackbeard fair. I'm thinking of, like, white people my age. Kayla: She also came up with the idea for the covers to be easily removable and washable because, again, children are disgusting.

19:23 Chris: Right. Kayla: And she has seen that firsthand. Fussell was also the one who thrust the nugget into the lifestyle sphere, the exact sphere that it occupies today. See, as we mentioned earlier, the nugget is kind of synonymous with upper middle class online mommy blogger. Same color shirt wearing and family photo style family ness. That's the nugget. Chris: Yeah, that really paints a picture. Kayla: This started with fussell sending free nuggets to Instagram parent influencers and bloggers. Chris: Oh, man, this lady is doing. Kayla: Oh, yeah. And because. So she sent out these nuggets and then, of course, these influencers featured the product on their sites and their pages. Chris: Yeah. Kayla: Like, a lot of, like, a lot of people who use the nugget will go like, oh, yeah, I first saw it on, like, you know, mommy blog XYZ, and I'm not using. I know sometimes mommy blog can be used in, like, a derogatory term. I'm not using that in a derogatory term. Like, that's an aspect of the Internet. And from there, things just kind of went crazy for the company. Again, this is a small, several person operation. Like we said. Obviously they weren't weaving the fabric and building the foam themselves, but.

20:31 Chris: But they were assembling. That's nothing. Kayla: No, it's not. When it came to assembly and filling orders, this was all still handled by baron. And when the nugget began to take off in the mommy blogosphere, the orders just came rolling in. So in order to ship, nuggets are compressed so that they can be sent out in regular sized boxes. If you've ever bought a mattress online, you know what I'm talking about. Chris: You know what I'm talking about. Are we finally getting Casper to sponsor our podcast? Kayla: I wish. So we don't have a casper mattress. We have a different online mattress. We have. Chris: It's called, like, titan or something. Kayla: I think so. Chris: Titan or fig? Giant. Kayla: I don't know. It's a good mattress. This is why we don't get sponsors. Chris: Did it? Did it? I forget. Kayla: Oh, it came.

21:11 Chris: Rolled up. Kayla: Yeah, it came compressed and rolled up. The last few mattresses, the last mattress we had before this real mattress. So this is a real mattress? The mattress we had before that, we got on Amazon for like, dollar 150. Chris: Good for us, man. Kayla: And it came compressed and rolled up and it was terrible. Chris: But I. Yeah, well, it was cheap. You get what you pay for. Kayla: So if you, like us, have ever bought a mattress online, you know that companies will air compress a mattress down so it can roll up and fit in a box that can then be sent easily through the mail or the ups or whatever. Turns out those air compressing machines are very expensive. So Baron rigged up a DIY machine that only he knew how to operate. I think it involved, like, DIY air compressor. Chris: Yes. Kayla: It used, like, cinder blocks and stuff like, it sound.

21:52 Chris: What? Kayla: And only he knew the key. It was all him. Chris: Where do you even begin for something like that? Kayla: I don't know. But that meant that the number of orders they could fill and the speed at which they could do so relied solely on this one person who literally slept in the warehouse, filling as many orders as he could. Chris: That's what you call a bottleneck. Kayla: I don't know why you said it in that voice. Chris: Cause that's the bottleneck voice. Kayla: I would argue that this setup largely played into the eventual cult following of the product. Chris: I'm still not getting that bit so far. You're just describing, like, a fun success story from the pandemic. Kayla: The company could only output so many nuggets per quarter or per year, because literally only one person was doing the output. There was a demand that the supply could just not meet. So by the natural constraints of the human body, the nugget became an exclusive item. So kind of like, that is awesome. Yes. Like, think about when companies only release a certain number of something. Like, it gets compared to the brand supreme a lot. Or, like, this is reminiscent of the PS five, because there are so few people want them even more. It becomes a race to see who can get them right.

23:02 Chris: The scarcity itself suddenly becomes valuable to people. Only feedback. Kayla: Yeah, it's like a loopy spiral. Chris: Yeah. When was this happening? Kayla: What time frame here? So he came up with the idea in 2012. The Kickstarter was in 2014. And I think where we're talking about right now is, like, 2017 ish. Chris: Oh, so this is pre pandemic. Kayla: Kind of. Kind of? Chris: Well, so far, the story you've been telling me has been pre pandemic. Kayla: Okay, so the. The nugget naturally becomes a status symbol that you have to have if you're a parent, but it's impossible to get a lot of places create this kind of demand artificially, like we've said. But the way the Nugget founders tell this story, the crazed demand was au naturale.

23:45 Chris: Okay. Kayla: Even as the company continued to grow, demand would be greater than what they could fill. So even as they tried to, like, keep up with it, they just. They couldn't keep up with how much people wanted their fucking nuggets. Eventually they, like, hired more staff, they got a bigger facility, and so now we're talking. Chris: Did you make another compressor or. Kayla: I'm assuming that they got another compressor at some point. I did not read about stuff. I'm assuming they bought one. By the time Covid rolled around in March 2020, they were finally just finishing up filling the backorders they'd had from before Christmas 2019. Chris: Wow. That's months of backorders. Kayla: And then the pandemic hit and all hell broke loose during the shutdown during the spring. I checked the website every day for it to be in stock. When they did the drop, I was on time and my cart glitched out and I totally cried. The stress of trying to buy a nugget play couch for my kids to endure more months of quarantine was really not an ideal way to start this day. I tried all the ugly colors first and still didn't get one. I've had this in my calendar for months, signed on and was ready to go on by noon and blame Melissa for sharing this with the whole group. Haha. All of the colors sold out before I could even get one. Wow. All sold out in ten minutes. I was ready to go right when they stocked and I couldn't get one.

25:02 Kayla: So disappointing. Sold out and I got on right at noon. Crazy. It took me three restocks to finally get ours. It's insane. Me too. I'm bummed. These quotes are all from a Buzzfeed article written by Katie Nautopolis titled how the Nugget Couch became supreme drops for moms when Covid hit, the already high demand for the nugget went insane. So yes, those were all quotes from people trying to get the fucking nugget couch during the pandemic and freaking out when they couldn't. Awesome. Nugget Couch. Chris: Yeah, well, you gotta have a nugget couch cause the influencers have them. Kayla: Katie Natopoulos explains it like the pandemic hit with a double whammy. The startup had to shut down its facility for two months from late March through May. At the same time, families with kids cooped up in the house were desperate to find something that could occupy their kids other than screen time. Across parenting Facebook groups, Instagram, and Pinterest. The same advice came get a nugget. But by then it was impossible. Over the summer, people would sign up to get an email alert for when the item was back in stock. On a day when it was restocked, there were 200,000 visitors to the website vying for only question Mark. Question mark. Question mark. Available couches.

26:15 Chris: Oh, my God. So are these things, like, beanie babies now? Like, if, like, are they worth just thousands and thousands of dollars in the secondary market? Kayla: We will get to that. Okay, we will get to that. But obviously there's a secondary. Obviously there's a resale market. Come on. I don't know if these will go quite the way with a beanie baby where they'll, like, be worth nothing and then all of a sudden they'll be worth something because it's like, a Beanie baby you can keep. You know, like, a Beanie baby is a collector's item. These are meant to be used. Like, Beanie wasn't even that fun to play with. I had a shit ton of Beanie babies as a kid, and they just. You know what I did with them? They sat in my shoe rack. I had a shoe rack. Oh, my God. Chris: Podcast. Kayla: I've literally said to you six times, the next time we go to my mom's house, we have to find the Beanie babies. They're in a bin in the garage that could be all moldy and rat eaten now. So, like, let's pray that they're not.

27:01 Chris: Well, if they're worth enough, though, then let's. Let's sell them so that we can get ourselves a nugget. Kayla: Yeah. And I also have Pokemon cards. We can also sell those. Chris: That's a whole nother thing. Kayla: So you can see how this was kind of a perfect storm for the. For the cult following of the Nugget couch. Suddenly, millions of kids stuck at home with nothing to do. Millions of parents are trying to do their best to provide their kids with something to do besides staring at a screen. Parenting blogs and Facebook groups have already been praising the nugget as the thing to get in order to be a good parent. The nugget is already exclusive and hard to get. And then the production facility shuts down right when hundreds of thousands of people decide that this is the one and only thing that they need. This is the answer to all of their pandemic prayers.

27:45 Kayla: As mentioned, the nugget then began selling in drops, which I'm like, I don't know if I've ever heard the term drop related to, like, something for kids or. Chris: Yeah, or, like, furniture. No, drops. Like, actually drops is common with, like, collectors items. We're gonna do a drop. Kayla: Yeah. Chris: Like, they do that with the. The NBA nft thing that they're. They have doing. They call them drops. Stuff like that. Kayla: Supreme is drops. Like drops. So for someone listening who may not know what a drop is on a given day, nuggets would suddenly become available for purchase on the website. So they nugget like, we're gonna do a drop, and then nuggets are available, and you have to buy them.

28:26 Chris: It's kind of like selling concert tickets. Kayla: Literally. My next line is, think of it kind of like concert tickets or other finite items. I'm sure lots of other listeners have had the experience of sitting and staring at Ticketmaster, knowing that the tickets for a specific show you want to go to will be made available at twelve noon on the dot. We all know that feeling of frantically clicking, knowing you're competing against hundreds of thousands of other hopefuls. Your browser moves all slow sweating, stressed, like, you probably get locked out at some point, have to try again. Maybe you're successful, maybe you're not. Chris: And your friends are texting you. Did you get in? Kayla: Oh, yeah. You have, like, a whole, like, there's a whole ring. Ring going with your friends. Like, everyone's just trying to get as many tickets as they can, and the process all happens in the span of, like, 1 minute.

29:10 Chris: Yeah. Cause by then, they're gone. Kayla: Yeah. Now imagine that instead of buying concert tickets, you're buying a play couch for your children. Chris: And again, I looked at the pictures. It's okay. Kayla: I mean, I want one. Chris: Look, it's cool. It's definitely cool. But it's also just a pile of cushions. Kayla: But I also understand now. Like, I was a kid who wanted a furby. You know? I was a kid who wanted a furby. I grew up with a very close group of friends, and our parents were all really good friends, and all of us wanted furbys. And all of our parents made sure we got furbys for Christmas that year. They went and stood in line together. Chris: Wow, you guys have good parents. Kayla: Yeah. Literally stood in line for fucking furbies.

29:51 Chris: Aw. Pam, if you're listening. Kayla: Oh, my mom didn't. Chris: Oh, okay. Kayla: My dad did. Chris: Oh, okay. Got it, got it. Kayla: No, my mom was one who stayed with us and, like, took care of us, and my dad went into wine. Chris: Like, calm down your nerves. Well, you know, don't worry. The fur. Kayla: My mom did the, like, parenting, and my dad wins the line. My dad was a great dad, but also he wins in the line. Chris: Listen, man, you got to divide labor somehow. Kayla: Yeah, you got to divide labor. Chris: Standing in line is the same in the ass. Kayla: We all got furbies, and I will never forget that. And I totally understand from, like, that empathetic perspective, seeing how badly they wanted us to get the furbies. I understand these parents standing in a virtual line to make sure they're kids.

30:36 Chris: Yeah, that makes sense. Kayla: Mom, thanks for taking care of us while dad got us furbys. It's kind of like if someone married the insane demand of the furby or the tickle me Elmo and betrothed it to the supreme clothing drop or the Ticketmaster experience during a pandemic and then through a pandemic on top of it. And Instagram influencers. The thing that I keep going back to is the unspoken idea that in order to be a good parent during these times, you have to have a nugget. Chris: Yeah. Kayla: And I think that social media and Facebook groups have a lot to do with that. Like, a mom named Tyisha Roberts was quoted in an LA Times article. I read about the nugget, and she described the atmosphere in these groups as everybody wants to be a part of that little clique. Everybody wants to be the in type of moms, the cool moms. So, like, it's not enough to just be a good parent and get your kid any old play couch. In order to be one of these in type moms, you got to get this couch specifically, and it's impossible to get.

31:36 Chris: Right? Right. Well, and, I mean, I'll add to that. And this is just totally me riffing. I have no idea what this person or other moms would say, but kids also. Kids can smell off brand like, a mile away. You know, like, you can get them something that's identical, and if it has, like, a different brand name, they'll be like, mom, this isn't the nugget. My friend Tommy has a nugget. Kayla: To be fair, those knockoff barbies always looked really bad. Like, it wasn't. They just looked bad. They didn't look good. I don't know what the deal was. Chris: What about transmorphers, that awesome movie? Kayla: Okay, that's a movie, and that's a different thing. Actually, I did read an article that was, like, comparing the nugget to, like, something called the foam nasium, and it was basically being like, can I just give my kid the phoneasium? Like, justifying.

32:23 Chris: Right. Kayla: How do you kid this thing instead of this thing? Which made sense because actually, the article was written by a canadian outlet. And in order to buy. In order to get the couch. In Canada, it's $400 because of, like, shipping and whatnot. Chris: Wow. Kayla: So get the phone. If you live in Canada, get the phonasium. Chris: Yeah. And then just take a sharpie and write nugget. Kayla: And write nugget on it. You're fine. The other thing is that dollar 400 is a lot of money, but dollar 229 is not a small amount of money to spend on something that your kid is gonna, like, drool on and pee on. Absolutely. Chris: Destroy in two months. Kayla: Shit on and spill food on and, like, throw in the fireplace, the couch. I don't know how old these kids are. What if a cute little diaper runs on it and, like, poop comes out? I don't know. I'm just saying, like, that's not. It's not a small amount of money.

33:07 Chris: Sure. Yeah. For something that's intended to be destroyed. Yeah. Kayla: And, like, I read articles where parents were saving up for these, where they were like, we can't buy one right now because we need to save up for them. And then they found themselves unable. Like, they saved up the money and then found themselves unable to get ahold of it, which just sucks because they had the money now and they couldn't even buy it. These kinds of stories and this kind of demand then led Nugget to begin holding lotteries in addition to the regular drops. Chris: Oh, yeah. Kayla: Dubbed the nug lotto. The nug lotto, the first nug lotto, was instituted after a drop of 40,000 nuggets, had 100,000 prospective buyers logging on and competing to purchase. From my research, this first lottery was held from October 23 to December 11, 2020, and the company randomly drew 5000 to 10,000 names per week, with the idea being that they would deliver those 60,000 nuggets by Christmas. The lotto was devised in order to help address the scarcity issue, but possibly only resulted in further whipping up the frenzy because in the week of that lotto alone, 100,000 people entered. And then, like, the number doubled, probably tripled. You know what I mean? Like, people were becoming obsessed. I even read stories about people who didn't just replace all of their kids furniture with nuggets, but replaced all of their furniture with nuggets.

34:27 Chris: Wait, what? Yes. Kayla: People got obsessed with these. And you can, like, I thought you. Chris: Could, like, barely even get one. How are people replacing all their furniture. Kayla: Spending all their time trying to get nuggets, buying it on the secondary market? Nugget. Nugget, Nugget, nugget. I saw, like, this one picture, I'll put it on the Instagram for sure. Where, like, I don't know, there's like three kids sitting in this, like, three tier fort that they've built out of like six nuggets. Like, people went insane. Chris: Okay. Kayla: And are currently going insane. Chris: Hold on. So it's not just that it's, like, hard for, like, one mom to get one nugget, it's that there's also people out there that are just like, hoarding nuggets that are just buying as many nuggets as they can get, apparently. Kayla: Yeah, but. Okay, but it's not just other Pinterest parents contributing to the scarcity problem. Just like in the ticket analogy we talked about earlier, resellers have taken note of the frenzy around Nugget and have decided to try for their piece of the pie. So, yes, there is a secondary market. We're going to talk about that now. The only other way to buy a nugget after drops have sold out on the site is to turn to secondary sales. Facebook marketplace obviously being one of the biggest.

35:37 Chris: Okay. Kayla: While resale prices generally. Do you want to take a guess at what the resale price is in general? It's actually not that crazy. Chris: Okay, well, I was gonna say a thousand, but then you said, not that crazy. So, you said, no, you're right. Kayla: It's like 500 to a thousand. Chris: Oh, okay. My next guest was gonna be like, I was gonna say like 500 because you said there was about a two to one ratio of people that want them to actually are supplied. Kayla: Yeah. The retail prices will range from 500 to 1000 on any given day. Those costs can obviously get much higher. In that same LA Times article I mentioned, it was noted that just a single couch cover was up for resale at one point for $1,000 because you can buy separate covers. And somebody went on to eBay or whatever and was just trying to sell a cover for $1,000.

36:26 Chris: Why didn't Nugget company, Inc. Just start charging more? Kayla: I don't know. Chris: I think not part of their business philosophy. Kayla: We'll get to that. Okay, if $1,000 feels like a gouge, how about $10,000 for a couch? Chris: What? Kayla: Because that's a real. Chris: Made of, like, real corinthian leather. Kayla: It was not. It may have been. So there have been several colors that are, like, no longer produced. And so those colors fetch an even higher price on the secondary market. But $10,000 was a real price reported to buzzfeed for a resale couch found on Facebook marketplace. I cannot confirm if that person actually sold their couch for $10,000. But somebody, like the, in the article, somebody messaged. This person was like, wait, what's the price that you're charging? It was not a typo. They were charging $10,000 for this couch.

37:16 Chris: Well, I hope that somebody was happy with their purchase and somebody was happy with the money. Kayla: They got me, too. So, yeah, the craze over the nugget couch is real. I feel like at this point we probably understand why. Let me just really break it down. Specific production restraints leading to a backlog of orders. The product becoming trendy among online influencers. The pandemic shutting down the facility causing even more demand. More demand that is not being fulfilled. A company doing its best to keep up with that demand, trying to grow along with it, but finding itself unable to keep up due to the sheer level of hype. Or as a dad named David Garcia said to the LA Times, quote, it's an unintentional draw. When you tell people that they can't have something, it makes them want it more. Like little kids. Yep.

38:07 Chris: Yep. Is it for the kids or is it for the kids? Kayla: We're all kids. Doesn't matter. Chris: Exactly. Kayla: Some of us are big kids. Some of us are little kids. And going back to the thing you said about, like, why doesn't nugget just charge more? I do think that the company, that the Nugget company seems to be trying to run itself in, like, a somewhat ethical manner and charging what they think is reasonable and what they're worth. Their employees start off with $15 an hour. If you work at Nugget with health benefits, if you worked there during the pandemic, you were paid even when the company was shut down. Chris: Oh, wow. Kayla: They're working to expand and grow and hire more people. Chris: They're still around.

38:47 Kayla: They're still around. And they actually seem pretty cool to me in that regard. Like, I'm sure that's pretty good. Like any company, I'm sure there's dark, seedy underbelly. I didn't want to get into it. From a capitalist perspective. They seem to be doing a. Okay, that's pretty good. Chris: Yeah, I mean, like, you know, it's like, bands can charge more for concert tickets too, but, you know, they don't because they have a fan base that they don't want to alienate. Kayla: What bands are you talking about? I'm just saying, do you know how much it cost? Do you remember how much it cost when went to that u two concert. Chris: Yeah. And still there were people scalping. That's what I'm saying. Right. Like, even expensive tickets, they can charge more. So, you know, if every band wanted to have an auction, then, like, no reasonably middle class to poor people would ever be able to afford a concert ticket.

39:31 Kayla: So what then does the initial headline I read to you have to do with any of this? Chris: This whole time, I've just been waiting. Kayla: For this drop from Michelle Santiago Cortez at refinery 29. The accidental sex couch tearing Facebook mom groups apart. Let's get into it. Chris: So is the couch having just. Kayla: The couch is accidentally having sex. Chris: No surprise about sex from the couch. Kayla: So remember what the nugget looks like? Chris: Yeah. Kayla: The pictures that you saw. Chris: I remember how that looks like two peanut butter and jelly sandwiches just sitting next to each other. And then some triangular cushions on top, maybe. Kayla: I mean, we call them triangular, but would you maybe even call them wedge shaped?

40:17 Chris: Oh, God. Kayla. What? Kayla: Why don't you go ahead and look at it? Chris: No, I remember the wedge shapes. Kayla: Look at it again. Chris: Oh, my God. Kayla: And then I'm gonna send you something. Well, look at it again, and then we'll talk for a minute. Chris: Yeah. You could call this, like, a ramp almost. Kayla: Oh, it's interesting that you say that, but let's stick with Wedge. How about we stick with wedge? Chris: Okay. Kayla: So have you ever heard of a sex wedge? Chris: No. Kayla: Well, according to Webmd. Chris: Webmd? Why is WebMD talking to us about sex? Kayla: No, I just googled it. Chris: WebMD is having the talk with us. Kayla: If Webmd. I had to quote Webmd here. So Webmd, they go further. They say a sex pillow is a firm, angled pillow that comes in a variety of shapes and sizes. Sex pillows help you try new sex positions and angles comfortably. They're firm and angled and come in a variety of sizes. They can help with deeper penetration, and.

41:13 Chris: That means getting NSF this show. We should have done a. Oh, this is NSFW warning at the head of. Kayla: This show, they may make for more satisfying, a more satisfying, comfortable sexual experience. There are many types to choose from, including the wedge pillow. Chris: Oh, boy. Kayla: Here, let me show you a picture of what they're talking about, and maybe you can describe it for our audience. I'm going to send you a link on your ew. Chris: Okay. Kayla: And I want you to click through all of the. Make sure you click through all of the pictures. Chris: This is definitely NSFW here. Kayla: So what I just linked you to is liberator.com. Which is a sex product selling website. I don't want to just say toys, because, yes, they do sell sex toys, but they also sell sex furniture.

42:00 Chris: Yeah. Kayla: So one of which being the wedge, which I have just linked to you. Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Kayla: And what does it look like, Christopher? Chris: It looks like porn. Kayla: No, the product, not the picture. Chris: Well, I mean, that's how they're selling it, though. They have, like, they have this sexy lady with. With makeup on and, like, those look like eight inch, nine inch stilettos. And she's, like, posing over this luscious red pillow that's sitting on a even more luscious white shag carpet. Kayla: Give me this. Chris: But the pillow, what you said to describe the picture. Kayla: Yeah. Chris: And the pillow looks like a ramp. Like a triangle. Like a wedge?

42:42 Kayla: Like a wedge. Like, does it look anything like the back of a nugget? Chris: Exactly like the back of a nugget. It's almost identical to the back of a nugget. Kayla: It does look exactly like the back of a nugget. It's interesting that you keep saying ramp, because there is also a piece of sex furniture called a sex ramp, where it's a sex wedge, but it's bigger. So the sex wedge is it goes under your hips, or you can just lean on it, but a ramp, it's more for your back or something you can really lean on. It's just a bit bigger. Chris: Avenue monetization idea cult are just weird themed wedges. Kayla: No, thank you. Chris: What's up? Kayla: I guess we could make covers. Now, if you'll remember, the nugget is made out of polyurethane foam blocks covered in a soft micro suede fabric that is removable and machine washable. That sex wedge I just showed you is from liberator.com and is a high density foam block covered in a microfiber fabric that is removable and machine washable.

43:41 Chris: That's identical. That's the same thing. Kayla: I think you can maybe see where we're going here. Chris: Yeah. Kayla: Turns out some people weren't just buying nuggets for their kids to build forts with and play on. Some people were, in fact, buying nuggets to utilize them as sex furniture. Chris: Kayla, I have a question. Kayla: Yes. Chris: The wedge you sent me on liberator.com is $98 retail. Kayla: Yeah. Chris: The nugget you said was, what, 200 and some odd. So why wouldn't you just go to liberator.com and buy a wedge? Kayla: Well, because with the $98 wedge, you're only getting one if you buy a nugget. A, you're getting two of those wedges. Plus, you're getting the platform, you're getting the two cushions that form the base. You get more bang for your buck.

44:29 Chris: Okay. All right. And then you can, like, at night, you can. Yeah, you can boink on the cushion, and then by day, your kids can use it to build a fort. Kayla: That's just if you're spending $229 on something. Yes. Multiple uses. Chris: Oh, yeah. You're goddamn right. Yeah. Kayla: So honestly, now that I've looked at the nugget, and now that I've looked at sex wedges, like, yeah, it makes absolute sense. Plus, okay, this is how the nugget describes its own product on its own website. It's a harmony of open cell polyurethane foams, cloaks in soft and durable micro suede fabric to achieve that elusive, just right feel.

45:12 Chris: Wait a minute. They should not be saying that at kids. Kayla: That is how that is from the website. So, like, of course people are gonna figure out how to fuck on these things. Of course. But the reproach. Chris: I wanna fuck. That sentence. Kayla: I know, right? Just that elusive just right feel. The repurposing of nugget culture doesn't stop there. So remember how we talked about how the nugget was often discussed in Facebook groups and Facebook parenting groups? Chris: Yeah, you said it was tearing them apart. Kayla: Well, it was not just talked about in parenting groups. In fact, groups about the inherent sexual nature of the nugget were created because, of course, these groups were called nugget after dark groups or NAD groups. Now, these groups just existed on the Internet pretty peacefully until one fateful day when everything blew up.

46:08 Chris: Oh, no. Kayla: As reported in that refinery 29 article. And we mentioned at the top of the show, the question, what's something that's not a cult, but seems like a cult had gone viral on the Internet, particularly on TikTok. TikTok, userhing a stroller in heels, answered this question with the nugget. She went on to explain in her video basically everything we've talked about so far, but then took it one step further and outed the concept of nugget after dark groups, which she described as the upper echelon of nugget groups. Chris: It's like NXivM, where it's like the lower levels, but then as you, like, graduate into higher levels and get more hardcore, all of a sudden it becomes about sex.

46:50 Kayla: Everyone is consenting here. The thing is, you photograph your husband sitting on top of the box when it gets delivered, the less clothes, the better. Literally, someone just posted their husband ass naked on top of the box. She went on to explain that these groups were a place where parents, quote, just talk about banging all over their children's furniture. Chris: Oh, my God. Kayla: This was not something that most TikTok viewers were familiar with. And honestly, okay, at first blush, yes, it does sound pretty scandalous. Like, it's hard to take the idea of children's furniture and throw sex in the mix without it coming off, like, as kind of gross or skeevy, like, sorry, no judgment. But I can see how people might jump to certain conclusions.

47:31 Chris: Sure. Kayla: But also, as NAD groups explained, many parents would just buy separate nuggets just for their own playtime. So no harm, no foul to their play time. Yeah, playtime. But now, of course, fully scandalized TikTok erupted. The nugget. And the claims about nugget sex groups took over, trending on everyone's for you page. So it became, like, super viral on TikTok, and it inspired more parents and bystanders to discuss the existence of NAD groups. And these groups. Chris: Can we please start calling them Nad groups? Kayla: Nad groups. Many of these groups housed thousands and thousands of members. Like, thousands, of course. And now these groups were exposed to millions of TikTokers. I'm honestly depressed that I missed this kerfuffle, and I wish that I had been there in the thick of it.

48:18 Chris: How did we not see this happen? Kayla: It sounds hella fun. Like, oh, my God. But unfortunately, like everything else on the Internet, the hella fun part only lasted a short while. Chris: Oh, it flew too close to the sun. Kayla: Its wax wings melted. As more and more women began to come clean about the existence of nugget after dark groups, certain other people on the Internet decided that this was unacceptable. Basically, some moms in the NAD groups began to dox other moms who shared the existence of said groups. Some cyber harassing went on. Whoa, whoa. Chris: Hold on, hold on. I need to follow this. So, okay, so you have women in the Nad groups who are like, yay, let's use the nuggets for sex. Kayla: Yes.

48:58 Chris: Then you have women in other groups that are saying, boo, you shouldn't use that. Kayla: No, you have women. You have people. You have parents in these nugget after dark groups having sex on their nuggets. Then. Then on TikTok, other moms in the groups, not in the groups, whatever other moms who know about these groups talked about these groups on TikTok. Chris: Okay? So they're just saying, hey, did you know this existed? Kayla: Yes. And bringing to light to millions of people who did not know these groups existed, that these groups existed. Chris: Got it. Kayla: And then some of the people in the groups got upset at this, got upset at the groups being talked about and began to, like, dox in cyber harass people talking.

49:39 Chris: Okay. I was surprised that this, like, the sex positive people were the ones doing the doxxing and harassing. Kayla: It's just some. And also, like, there are. I don't, I don't condone doxxing, and I don't condone cyberbullying. I don't think that's the correct response to something like this. But also, there are certain unspoken rules about a lot of different Facebook groups where it's like, you don't talk about fight club kind of thing. Like, you don't share this outside of the, like, this is a safe place kind of thing. And I think that nugget after Darken was like, this is a safe place to talk about this. Chris: Okay. So they were doxxing some of their own members who were breaking some of their own rules. Kayla: I don't know. I wasn't there, and I'm really bummed about it. People were mad. People were mad about the sex couch. The Facebook groups were. The mom Facebook groups were being torn apart.

50:27 Chris: That's true. Kayla: The accidental sex couch tearing Facebook mom groups apart. Chris: Right. Kayla: That's what happened. Chris: We're being torn apart. Okay. I want to make sure I understood the mechanics of being torn apart. Like, exactly which group was bending which other group over what pillow? Kayla: Yeah, over the wedge. One of the exposers on TikTok goes by hebigweardmom on TikTok has a series called mom group Dumpster Fires, where she. Chris: Talked about, oh, that sounds delicious. Kayla: It does. She talked about the nugget after dark groups. But like other TikTok exposers, she said that she respected the NAD group's privacy rules, the rules that we just talked about. So nad groups, they generally have as one of their rules. It's like, don't screenshot and share outside of this group.

51:10 Chris: Do not share these nats if you're in the group. Kayla: So you can't. For groups like this, you have to join and then be accepted. You don't just get to automatically join. Chris: Right. It's private group. Kayla: So if you're in the private group, it's assumed that if you're in this group, you will abide by the rules. And one of the rules is don't share screenshots outside of the group. So don't do that. But is just talking about it outside of the confines of the group, breaking the rules. I don't really know. I'm not sure. But unfortunately, just by mentioning the existence of these nugget sex groups, she and others made themselves targets of doxxers. And obviously, not all people in the nugget after dark groups were doing this. Just unfortunately, a number of people were doing this.

51:55 Chris: Right. And just for the small percentage of our audience that may not know, doxxing is when you find somebody's real life, personal identifiable information and share it online. Kayla: So, like, don't do it. Chris: This person's real name is so and so, and they live at this address. And this is their phone number. Kayla: This is their phone number. Chris: It's a potent form of cyberbullying. Kayla: It gets more complicated. Chris: The nugget does this whole simple nugget. Kayla: No. So it wasn't just about Facebook moms, doxxing, TikTokers. Once these groups got excited. Chris: It's such a weird set. Kayla: I know. Once these groups got excited, exposed outsiders began descending on the nugget after dark. Groups, quote, in droves in order to shame the parents in those groups for utilizing the nugget during sex. So a bunch of people see this thing on TikTok, and they freak out, and they're like, ugh, I'm gonna go find this nugget after dark, but I'm gonna go shame these people for having sex with each other on their kids furniture.

52:51 Chris: And, like, how dare you have sex. Children have nothing to do with sex. Kayla: Nothing. I get. I get why using the nugget for sex might leave an icky taste in some people's mouths, but, like, come on. Chris: Let'S let them do it. Kayla: Consenting adults can fuck on couch cushions, and that doesn't make it inappropriate. It doesn't make them child molesters. Like, shame on the shamers is what I say. Chris: Everybody has sex on the couch, and kids sit on the couch. Like, this already happens. Kayla: Ew. There's, like, parents that have sex in their kids beds. Chris: Like, ew, that's gross. I'm gonna go shame them. Kayla: Go shame those. Shame on the shamers. And honestly, it's all a real shame because, hey, after these shamers descended, most nugget after dark groups went entirely secret, meaning outsiders can't find them. You can only, like, be invited or already be in it. From nads to nids, nads to nada.

53:46 Chris: Nuggets in the darkest, some of them. Kayla: Also just fully shut down. And that it. Honestly, it makes me really sad. That is sad because, like, Facebook groups while Facebook is a piece of shit, Facebook groups are an important place for some people to connect with others. And, like, especially parents. Like, that was the hardest. When I got off Facebook, that was the hardest thing to leave behind, was my Facebook groups, because I genuinely have a great community. I have great communities on Facebook. It was hard to leave, and sometimes I do go back and I look. Chris: But, yeah, it was like, you were really bummed when the QAnon communities got shut down on Facebook that you were a part of. Yeah. Kayla: Harsh. Chris: I'm sorry. Kayla: Brutal. I forgot about, like, these poor moms.

54:26 Chris: Like, where are they gonna share all of their anti vax memes if they don't have their Facebook groups? Kayla: I mean, they have the anti Vaxx Facebook group. Chris: Oh, right. That's true. Kayla: So there's a lot. While there's a lot of bullshit that goes along with the parenting Facebook groups, like the competitiveness, the pursuit of an aesthetic, the cliques, Facebook groups have also been a place for parents to help each other feel less pressured to conform. As mom Amanda Ligon was able to ask in one Nugget Facebook group, from one of the articles, I forget which one, she said, why are we putting this pressure on ourselves to secure glorified couch cushions? Like, the success of our parenting hinges on it? And look, if some parents found a way to connect with each other and others in a way that was empowering to their sex lives and outside of their kids identity, more power to them. So it bums me out that the doxing and the shaming had to become a part of this.

55:16 Kayla: And I'm especially sad because I tried to join a nugget after dark group on my. Chris: Because. Kayla: Okay, because this. Full confession. I know I deleted. I deactivated my main Facebook account. But I have a separate Facebook account specifically for groups that I need to be in. Like, cult groups that I cannot let pass me by. I only go on there if I need to see a group. Nope, I joined one. It's just a parody. Makes me really sad. Chris: Oh, no, it wasn't a real one. Kayla: I can't find a real one. Nope. Chris: Listen, parents, the success of your parenting doesn't hinge on this couch cushion. What does hinge on? This couch cushion is like your hips. So what you do is you kind of hinge your hips in a certain way, and then when the penetration happens.

55:58 Kayla: I like how you've seen a couple pictures and you think you're an expert at the sex wedge. Chris: Well, you said Hinge made me think. Kayla: Hindu, so I wanted to do this topic, because after talking about some of the heavy topics we've discussed in the past few episodes, it felt important to do something a little light and show how any community, especially one online and in social media groups, can become toxic and. Or implode. Chris: Yeah. Kayla: Doxxing. Chris: And it sounds like they mostly avoid the toxicity, aside from, like, that, like, explosion at the end with, like. Yeah. The doxing and shaming. Kayla: Yeah. And it's just things like doxxing and shaming and social media itself. Like, those things can foment toxicity.

56:43 Chris: Right. Kayla: So I love learning about the nugget. I love that this small company became the next furby craze and that people had something to occupy them through the pandemic, either their pursuit of the nugget or playing with the nugget once they actually, you know, procured it. I love that people made weird I sex groups about their nuggets and that, like, TikTokers got obsessed with it. And I'm. I'm. I will forever be sad that it imploded this way. Especially, like, come on. This is a time where we need to cut each other and ourselves just a lot of slack. Chris: Yeah. Kayla: Especially in these parenting groups where it's like, no one's gonna be perfect. Come on. So, like, let's just take a lesson from this. From this little nugget story. And if you don't want your communities imploding, like, step away from the toxic tools like dxing and shaming and just buy a sex wedge instead.

57:27 Chris: The nugget after dark groups, you know, we love our nads. Kayla: It's like, don't cut them off before we finish. What does the Nugget company think about all. Chris: Oh, yeah. Kayla: Well, of course they're not happy about the pandemic. They're pleased they've been able to help families get through it and grow themselves as a company while doing so. Chris: Sure. Kayla: And what about nugget after dark in particular? Chris: Yeah, that's the part I'm. Yeah. Kayla: Well, refinery 29 reached out to Nugget to ask just that, and unfortunately, a company spokesperson declined to comment on it. But, quote, they did confirm that following the virality of Nugget talk, there was an influx of traffic to their site. So whether it be for children's toys or sex toys, I think it's pretty clear that the nugget is here to stay. I'm gonna leave you with one quote from a person named Webb Smith, who founded 02:00 p.m. A direct to consumer and e commerce newsletter. And this person said, if you build a product that can be co opted by the sex industry, you will succeed.

58:28 Chris: I feel like that's something. Kayla: Hashtag truth. Chris: They should teach that in business school. Just remember, if you make something, just make it so you can, like, also penetrate. Kayla: So just. I meant to do this at the top, but my research all came from Buzzfeed, the Nugget website itself. I read an article on MSN. I looked at their Kickstarter. I read an article on the modern mindful mom refinery 29. Of course, La Times shout out to liberator with their sex wedge. Today's parents. And WebMD, of course, webMd.com, sex pillow. Chris: Good. I'm glad that's on WebMD. Kayla: Yeah, that's. Chris: You know, sex is a part of human health.

59:11 Kayla: So is WebMD part of your trust network or no? Chris: Yes, I think so. I don't think I've ever read anything on it. Webmd. That's made me go, like, I feel. Kayla: Like WebMD is someplace where I'll go and I'll look and then I'll always confirm elsewhere. Chris: Yeah, I think Webmd is like. It's like the Wikipedia of health stuff for me. Kayla: I trust Wikipedia more for some reason. Chris: Really? Kayla: Yeah. I don't know why. I think probably because WebMd. WebMD has condoned diet bullshit. Chris: Well, yeah, but that's not particular to WebMD. Medical establishment in general. And then also, I'll say for Wikipedia, I think I agree. And the reason is that I know the mechanics of how Wikipedia truth is vetted and verified.

59:54 Kayla: Right. Chris: I don't really know the mechanics of that. For Webmd. Yeah, that's more obfuscated for WebMD. So I'm like, I don't know where this is coming from. However, I think it serves a similar function for me. It's one of the first things I'll read when I search something, and then it's like, jumping off from there. Kayla: All I know is I tried to edit. I tried to edit a Wikipedia article. I think I did it two or three times. And it would always like to be an asshole. Chris: Which article? Kayla: I don't remember. It might have been like. I don't even know if I wanna say it. Chris: It was like, oh, God, what did you do? What did you do? Kayla: It was, I wanna say Ted Cruz, but it wasn't Ted Cruz, but it was like a Ted Cruz. Like, some guy did something politically, was, like, horribly odious. And I, like, went onto the Wikipedia page. I can't remember who it was, and I changed it to, like, instead of Ted Cruz is an american politician. I changed. Like, Ted Cruz is a big, fat shit face or something like that.

1:00:50 Chris: But you're just making that more accurate. Kayla: For Ted Cruz, it was trying, but it wasn't Ted Cruz because it was somebody much lesser known. Because I was surprised with how quickly it was caught and changed back because it was somebody much lesser known. Chris: Oh, yeah. Kayla: Like a local politician. Chris: Yeah. Kayla: And it was changed back so quickly. Chris: Yeah. I have friends who've, like, tried to, like, more good faith than that, edit things, and they say that the response is swift. I have another friend who was trying to, like, help build his boss's brand back in the day. Kayla: Right. Chris: And he. So he was like, I'm gonna make a Wikipedia page for this guy. Like, a little Wikipedia bio, right? And he was, like, beset by a bunch of people basically being like, who is this guy? Why does he deserve an article here? Why is this newsworthy? What's going on? This shouldn't be an article, which it shouldn't have been. Right? That was actually. The friend was like, oh, yeah. Well, that didn't work out. But he was also like, but it probably shouldn't have. So that's actually good.

1:01:48 Kayla: Yeah. Chris: So anyway, I trust Wikipedia. Kayla: Except you know what? You know how the brand hunts? Chris: Yeah. Like, ketchup. Kayla: Hunts ketchup. For a long time. This was, like, probably a decade ago, but for a long time. Some jokester, some. Some trickster out there. Edited. Please don't ask me why I know this. Edited the page about hunt's pudding flavors and made a bunch of jokey flavors on there that weren't real. Like leprechaun pissed. And there was a whole bunch of fake hunts. Chris: I imagine that tastes minty. Kayla: I think so. There was a whole bunch of fake hunts, pudding flavors, and they were on there for way too long. They're fixed now.

1:02:34 Chris: Wait, but that's a. Kayla: It was. But it wasn't fixed for a very long time. Now it's fixed, actually. Chris: But that's a shame, really. Kayla: Anyway, luckily for us, the hunt's snack pack pudding flavors Wikipedia page has been fixed. Chris: Yeah. Kayla: And it has been fully rounded out with an about section, an in popular culture section. It's much. It's much better than it was ten years ago. Chris: So they don't have a leprechaun piss flavor. Oh, okay. All right. Shall we determine whether this is a cult or just a weird. Kayla: Yeah. What do you think? Chris: Charismatic leader? Is that the guy? What was his name, the CEO?

1:03:14 Kayla: Barron. David Barron. Chris: Now, I'm gonna say low because he doesn't know. Kayla: He's, like, living in the warehouse and. Chris: Building it himself, but he's not out there pushing the. I mean, I guess so. Kayla: Is it Hannah Fussell? Chris: Yeah, maybe Hannah Fussell is, because I read. Kayla: I didn't. Chris: She was the marketing genius. Oh, yeah. Kayla: She has lots of quotes out there. Like, she does a lot of pratt. Like, I'm just saying, maybe she's the. She's the charismatic leader. Chris: Okay. Kayla: She's also, like, honestly, I should show you some pictures. So there's, like, pictures of the three of them, and they're all so adorable. Like, they're just three. Cute. They're just so cute. Like, cute little 20 somethings. They're just, like, cute. I love them. Chris: Aw. And make cute little kids stuff that you can fuck on.

1:03:57 Kayla: Yeah. Chris: Oh, okay. I'm gonna give that one, like, a medium, then. Kayla: Okay. Chris: Like, this. Not. It's not completely absent, but it's not, you know, it's not like a teal swan or a, you know, super charismatic leader. Okay, next is expected harm. Kayla: Wait, did you flip the paper around? Chris: Yeah, yeah. Kayla: Totally missed it. Chris: Yeah. Cares. I was. I bent it over this pillow over here. Kayla: Stop it. Oh, my God. Chris: Okay, so expected harm, I think, depends on. You might get docs the size and what. Kayla: I'm gonna throw you out of this room right now.

1:04:38 Chris: Okay, fine. Doxxing is bad. Kayla: Doxing is bad. Shaming is bad. Chris: It doesn't feel like generally, though, if you're a member of this cult, what. Kayla: About all these parents that are like, I don't. I can't get a thing for my kid. I'm a terrible parent. Emotional pain. Chris: But is that from the nugget, or is that from, like, the requirement that capitalism has. That we all fulfill until we buy things? Kayla: Okay, but all cults have, like, a capitalism. Chris: A little bit of that. Okay, fine. So I guess. Kayla: Okay, that's a total lie. Chris: Little bit of harm. Kayla: Not all cults have a capitalistic element, but I think a lot of them. Chris: Do well in our capitalist society. Yes, but I'm sure capitalism is a cause. Oh, God, I shouldn't have said the c word. All right. Small, expected harm. There's some maybe, but I also didn't.

1:05:25 Kayla: Look up, like, I don't know, can you get smothered if you build a. If you build a fort incorrectly? Chris: Look, nugget people aren't, like, telling other people to not get vaccinated, which kills people. Kayla: The expected harm is low. Yeah, it's low if it's even present at all. Chris: Anti factuality no. What about the fact that it's one thing, but then it gets used for something else? Kayla: Yeah, but it's all whole groups that acknowledge that it can be used for that. Chris: Okay, so that's quite low. Kayla: What about the anti factuality that you're not a good parent unless you have this couch? Because that is untruth. Chris: That's true. Yeah. That's untrue. It's true that's untrue. Here's the only one. Yeah, this one scores pretty high on percentage of life consumed. Oh, obviously. This is the thing, I think that makes it make the list.

1:06:17 Kayla: Let people get obsessed. Chris: Clearly, people have. Some people have become completely obsessed with. Kayla: Consumed by this. Chris: Cushions. And that's weird. Kayla: Replacing all their furniture, having sex on it, spending all of their time online trying to get one, hoarding them. Chris: Why do you need ten of these things? What is going on with these? Why would you replace all of these? Kayla: We're in a pandemic. And what else is your kid gonna. Chris: Do, you nut jobs? Kayla: I actually. This is something I didn't say in this, but I do think it's. This is like the opposite of expected benefit. I think it is absolutely fantastic that parents are figuring out ways for their children to be entertained that don't have to do with a screen. And I'm not anti screen, but I just. Chris: Plus one that. Kayla: Yeah, there's being an adult that spends so much of my time fucking looking at a screen, even in my, like, playtime, I. I have so much nostalgia and, like, longing for the days when I could sit down and play with a fucking toye.

1:07:10 Chris: Yeah. Kayla: And just, like, be entertained by something physical in this world that I was just interacting with for hours and hours. And so I just. I think that the nugget in that way. Chris: Like a Nintendo. Kayla: Like a Nintendo. I think the nugget in that way is such a, like, beautiful gift for children stuck at home right now. If it really can be this, like. Chris: That did strike imagination playtime thing when you said that. Yeah, that did strike me as like, oh, that's cool. Like, good for these parents. Kayla: For, like, it's basically a big cardboard box. Chris: Yeah, but you can fuck on it. Kayla: Yeah. Chris: Okay. The next one is niche. Is it niche within society? Kayla: I don't know. I don't think so. I think it's gotten. Chris: No, it's huge. I mean, now that it's on our program. Kayla: Well, I mean, they're saying like, 200,000 people at a time are trying to buy this fucking couch.

1:07:55 Chris: 200,000 people still could be niche. If those are the only 200,000 people. Kayla: I don't think it's the only 200,000 people. Chris: I had never heard of this thing. If I hadn't heard of it, that means that it's niche because I am the barometer. Me. Kayla: I don't know if it is niche because it's like, if it's. If people. If the articles that I'm reading are comparing it to furby and tickle me Elmo and supreme. Chris: Okay. Yeah. Kayla: Those things aren't niche. Chris: Yeah. Furby and tickle me Elmo definitely were mainstream af. Kayla: Yeah. Chris: Can we say it's a little niche? Sure. Kayla: Just because you want to. Otherwise, parents. Sure. Chris: Scotch. Niche. Yeah, exactly. Kayla: You're doing the shaming. Chris: Next criteria. The final of our original criteria is ritual.

1:08:35 Kayla: I can make an argument for being high, but I don't think my argument holds much water. Chris: Well, what's your argument? Because my arguments were going to be. Actually, I think that the whole drops thing is fairly like the ritual of ordering your concert tickets. Kayla: Yeah, that's the ritual. Chris: To me, that's pretty ritualistic. Kayla: Rituistic. Chris: Rituistic. Pretty ritualistic. Also, we don't know what kind of crazy sex rituals people are performing with these pillows. That's true. Kayla: They definitely were summoning demons. Chris: You don't know. You don't have to summon demons to have it be a sex ritual. Kayla: Somebody needs to reshoot the Rosemary's baby scene but include a nugget. Pillows. Chris: Oh, God, that's. That is horrible. The scene is horrible.

1:09:18 Kayla: That seems really bad. Chris: You are horrible. Kayla: If you haven't seen Rosemary's baby, check out the. Does the dog die before you do? Chris: Trigger warning. But also, it's a great film. Kayla: Is it? Chris: Is it? Kayla: I think, fuck off and die. And, like, we don't ever need him again. Chris: Yeah, that's fair. Kayla: I don't remember if the movie was good. Chris: I think it was good in the way that some movies are good, like, after, like, I don't know if, like, watching it was good. Kayla: Right. Chris: But I think that, like, once you've seen it, like, having that as a. Kayla: As a cultural touchstone. Chris: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's. Kayla: Just read the book. Then you don't have to interact with Roman Polanski art and, like, get all in that. You can just read the book.

1:10:01 Chris: Oh, that's true. Kayla: The book. I remember. Really? I remember not liking the book until after. Until having it as, like, a cultural reference, really. Chris: Right. Kayla: I was just kind of like, okay, I get it again. I get it. And then I finished reading it and I was like, oh, shit. Chris: Yeah, that's how people feel about our show. Kayla: Yeah. Chris: All right. And now we have two new criteria. Kayla: We're just making the show long that. Chris: We dropped last episode. Kayla: We dropped. Chris: It was a drop. It was a criteria drop. Very exclusive. And those two new criteria are, one is chain of victims. Was there a chain of victims here? Think of it as, again, as recruiting like, one member, recruiting another member, and courage to proselytize to the next. To the next, such that you lose a distinction between who is the victim and who is the victimizer.

1:10:50 Kayla: I did lose who is the victim and who is the victimizer in the whole, like, TikTok Facebook group kerfuffle. Because it was like these people were doxxing these people, but these people were shaming these people, and these people were talking about things they should have been talking about. It seems like it just felt. Chris: That feels more. It was just genuinely confusing and complicated rather than, like, you lose track of it because there's this chain of recruiting. Kayla: No, I don't think there is a chain of recruiting. Chris: Low or zero. Okay. And then the final one, the second new criteria, is dogmatic. Kayla: Is it dogmatic? Chris: Right? Is it dogmatic? Hella dogma going on here, man. Kayla: I think that you gotta have. Chris: You gotta have the exact right sex couch, because if you have a different sex couch, not good enough for you.

1:11:32 Kayla: Your kids won't like it. Chris: The on brand sex couch, because. Yeah, exactly. Kayla: Yeah. I think when we get into things like, these kinds of trends, where it's like, these trends become, like, a sector of your identity, it gets really dogmatic. Chris: Yeah. I actually think that's surprisingly quite high for this one. Kayla: But is it a cult or is it just weird? Chris: Well, we only said it was high for dogmatic and for life consumed. Kayla: Right. What about ritual? Chris: Some were low. Ritual, I don't think is like, ritual is super high. Again, it depends on how people are having sex. People having sex on these couches with, you know, candles, the devil and, you know, playing Pink Floyd backwards or whatever, then high. But I think that's an individual choice. Not so much inherent to the couch. So I'm gonna say this is just a weird, in my opinion.

1:12:20 Kayla: I agree. Chris: A very sexy weird. Kayla: Very sexy weird and a very childish, weird, horrible, disgusting. No. And how do you like the fact that this is probably gonna clock in just over an hour? Chris: I love it. Kayla: A nice little shorty that will make. Chris: It easy to edit. Kayla: It's more of a, like a nice little audience a reward for our audience for like getting through the super lengthy like past seven episodes. Here's just a nice little palate cleanser for you, here's a nice little refresher, here's a nice little fun light sex couch romp. And then we'll get into it, you know, next episode, Kayla and I actually. Chris: Did have the same discussion a couple times of like, we've got to have the next few episodes be, if not fun, at least short. And you delivered on both this time.

1:13:05 Kayla: I tried. Chris: I really appreciate that. And again, not just not for us, but actually for you guys because 4 hours is a lot to slog through in a two week timeframe. So hopefully you enjoyed this one. And yeah, that's my only call to action. Remember, don't like, don't subscribe, don't do it, don't do anything else. Kayla: You dare. Chris: Don't go do any of that shit. Just listen to the podcast and enjoy it. Kayla: Enjoy yourselves on your sex couch. Chris: Enjoy yourselves. And if you need to use a wedged cushion to do so, then no shame in that. This is Kayla and this is Chris. Kayla: And this has been cult or just weird.