0:01 Kayla: 1030 in the morning on a Sunday. Chris: I know. I'm sorry that I made us go early this morning, and I'm sorry that we're, like, so last minute on this one. This is, like, as last minute as we've ever done. Kayla: Do you want me to tell you about my dreams last night? Chris: Me or our listeners or both? Sure. Kayla: I had a dream. It was very weird. First of all, I was in high school. No one had masks on, and I was like, I'm getting coronavirus. Chris: When I was in high school. No one had masks on either, but. Kayla: It was like, high school, but no. And then also, I called, were you. Chris: This age or were you 18? Like, both, right, okay. Kayla: And then I called out a friend of mine, but this is now. I called her out for, like, being a, like, shitty friend, and then she shot me. Whoa. With a gun.

0:53 Chris: Hardcore, dude. The high school you went to, though, like, that could happen. Kayla: I mean, it basically did happen all the time. Anyway, that's. I didn't. I barely slept last night because I had very intense dreams all night long. So I am tired today, and we're.

1:40 Chris: Going early, but I will try to. Kayla: Try to bring 100% to whatever. Bring it bullshit you have. Chris: That's what I'm trying, too. Welcome to culture. Just weird. I'm. Kayla: Chris, I'm tired. Chris: You always say something different. You're always like, I'm. And I'm tired and I'm sick. Kayla: Like, that's. Chris: People are gonna think there's something wrong with you. Kayla: That's my shtick. There's something wrong with all of us. We all have coronavirus, and we're living in forest fires and terrible. Chris: Yeah, coming at. You live here from the apocalyptic dystopia land of California. So that's, We can't really go outside.

2:21 Kayla: Can't go outside anymore. So we're now we're like. It's like a horror movie. It's like. It's basically. Chris: It's like Fortnite with. With the borders closing in and collapsing all the time, and you can't touch it or you die. And eventually we're just gonna be, like, confined to. Well, actually, we are. We are confined to one house, and if we go outside, the poison air kills us. So, anyway, yeah, it's been a little hard to focus, which is probably why this is so last minute. Kayla: Last minute does not have any bearing on quality. Chris: I will say that's true if my high school and college and every other school assignments or any testament to that.

3:03 Kayla: On my other podcast, I have researched, recorded, and edited and published, all in a single day. And those episodes are fine. Chris: Fine. They're fine. Kayla: Just as good. Chris: They're okay. They're out. Kayla: They're good enough. Chris: Yeah. No, I had managed to sort of normalize the feeling of, like, never being able to see friends again or go to restaurants or movies again, but now that, like, the whole air is poisoned, you can't even go outside anymore thing, I'm, like, still adjusting to that. And I'm, like, sort of an outdoors oriented person, too. And I like camping and hiking and fresh air and natural light. Kayla: So, like, being able to walk around the goddamn block. Chris: Yeah, it's been a little tough. Anyway, hope you listeners are doing well. Or if not well, you're at least doing better than we are here. Fuck the climate crisis. Actually, funny thing. Another part of why this is such a last minute recording session is it was actually my fourth topic choice.

4:00 Kayla: 4Th. Chris: 4Th. Kayla: You told me. I knew it was. Oh, I knew fully fourth. I knew it was third. I didn't know it was four. Chris: Yeah, I turned through three others. This is the fourth choice, which is not to say it's the fourth best option. Actually, I think it's the best option of the four. It's just that I eliminated the other three options for various reasons. Kayla: So are you gonna tell us? Chris: I was, like, halfway down the rabbit hole of one topic until you did your last episode and totally scooped me. Kayla: Were you actually halfway down, or did you just have the idea, I'm gonna do this? Chris: No, I'd done some research on it. Kayla: Research or research like, you watched an episode of television? Chris: What does that mean? Kayla: With me? Or you actually did research?

4:41 Chris: No, I watched an episode of television with you that did not count. But before I had done that, I had also read, like, four or five articles about the topic I was considering people to talk to about it, so. Yeah, so don't try to weasel your way out of scooping me here. Kayla: I'm just trying to explain how much of a delinquent you are. Chris: Thanks. Yeah, I think everybody knows, at least all of our friends, who I think are just our listeners know that I'm a delinquent. Kayla: Yeah. Chris: I literally just talked about how I procrastinate. I'm talking about how I procrastinate right now. Kayla: Yeah. Chris: So, anyway. You do? Yeah. I mean, you didn't exactly scoop me. The topics were just, like, a little bit too close thematically, and I'm not gonna talk. I'm not gonna say what it is, because I'll probably still do the topic at some point, I think. I think it's worth doing. I just didn't want to do it consecutively with the lion diet. Then another one of my options was, let's say it was a pretty good topic, but I couldn't deal with the stress and anxiety the research is giving me since it was related to the climate crisis.

5:44 Kayla: Oh, yeah, no, don't do that. Chris: So I nixed that one. Then I nixed another topic. Cause it just, like, wasn't quite there in terms of being good content or interesting enough for the show. Kayla: Like, good for a bonus episode, but not for a regular. Chris: Yeah, maybe. Yeah, like, it's an interesting topic. This american life and Grantland and a few others all have pieces about it. Well, actually, I can mention this one because I don't think we'll do it unless we maybe do bonus on it. I was gonna talk about a board game called diplomacy, which is near and dear to my heart. Kayla: I know. And if you had done that, my eyes would have glazed over the whole time. Chris: Whatever do. There's a this american life episode.

6:25 Kayla: I know, but it's, like, all about, like, mathematic. Chris: It is not about math at all, is it? Kayla: It's like, it's. But it's, like, similar vein to risk. Chris: No, it's a very similar vein to risk. It's a very similar game. But the thing is, risk is much more math because risk is all inside. Risk is all about rolling dice. And, like, I have this many armies when I kill your armies, and if we tie, then the defender wins. And there's these math. Kayla: I've only played risk one time, and the only goal I had was to make sure you didn't win. Chris: Yeah, I know. You were a troll in risk. That's very common. So don't think you're that cool. Kayla: I don't think I'm cool? Chris: Yeah. Kayla: I'm sitting here, you're not in my hot room talking to no one. Chris: With your hot husband.

7:06 Kayla: My hot husband. I'm very not cool. Chris: And by hot, I mean dripping with sweat and greasy. Kayla: God, I'm so greasy. Chris: No, but diplomacy is not about that. Diplomacy doesn't have dice. See, this is all, like, what I was going to talk about in the show. Diplomacy doesn't have dice. Diplomacy is literally just strength in numbers. So if I have three armies and you have two, I win and I go into your. There's no. Kayla: That sounded like math to me. Chris: You don't. But it's just comparison. It's not like dice rolling, and it's. It is math, but, like, everything's math. If you're gonna say that, like, it's. Kayla: That's why I hate everything. Chris: The point is there's. It's very simple strength in numbers, and there's no, like, killing armies. It's just displacing them. So it's a really. What the game is mostly about, or all about is negotiating with other players at the table. It's an extremely social game. Maybe we really should just do a topic on it. I don't know.

7:59 Kayla: But you just want to tell stories about how good you were at it. That's why you wanted to. Chris: Yes, I was decent at it a couple times. Kayla: I played with my friends. I love the funny anecdotes from your life. Chris: That's what this podcast is. This is like, man, one time I was in college, I had this professor that was fucking weird. Kayla: Oh, Mandy. Chris: Like, that's what the podcast is. So, yes, anecdotes. Actually, this episode is still anecdote from my life. So let's talk about that. Unless you want to hear more about diplomacy, because I could go on. Kayla: I really don't. Chris: So in college, I played the Ottoman Turks and. Kayla: But you also played it, like, really dorkily. Where didn't you guys, like, play it via email?

8:41 Chris: That's not dorkly. That's standard. That's how you play. Kayla: Not even. It's just. It's just a. It's just a. It's just a concept. Chris: But no, there's also a board game. We just. Kayla: Where's the board? Chris: When I put my boyfriends on email, the board was on a website. Kayla: So it's just a concept. Chris: It's still a board game. Dude, you can play settlers of Catan. You can play, like, any board game online now. Doesn't mean it's not a board game. Kayla: It's not real. Chris: We live in Covid world. We can't even play chutes and ladders unless it's online. Kayla: You and I could play chutes and ladders. Chris: We don't countenance. We live with a unit, sadly, because we're twin flames or whatever. Anyway, that's how I wound up on today's topic is I had to turn through a few others, and today's has just sort of been, like, sitting in my back pocket for a few months just for this sort of like, oh, shit, what should I do for the show? Type emergency. The only shitty thing that ripcord. Yeah, yeah. I was like, up. Time to pull this one. The only shitty thing is that, like, after TFU, I really wanted to do, like, a fun and nice topic, like cicada or tulpas at the line. And that's what I was trying. That's part of why I wanted to do diplomacy, is I was like, I'm gonna do one about a game that I like.

9:57 Kayla: Yeah. Chris: And instead, again, I landed on some bullshit woo, conspiracy theory hot garbage. Kayla: Yours are always the worst. Chris: I know, I know. I don't know what to do about it. Kayla: Yours are depressing. And then I have to claw us out of that depression hole, I guess. Except for soul phone. Soul phone dug us a little deeper, I think. You can't come back from that. Chris: But soul phone had a spiritual, a team and a jingle. So let's just try to make a jingle about this one. Maybe it'll be fine. I don't know. Kayla: Is it racist? Chris: No. At least this one's not racist. Kayla: Okay. Chris: That, like, I think that's the thing that just, like. Like, did me in doing creativity. It was just kind of like, this is. I'm just gonna do horrible stuff forever. I kind of wish I didn't do that one. So, Kayla, how has your YouTube experience been lately?

10:48 Kayla: Is YouTube the topic? Chris: The cult today is YouTube. No, what it could be is your. Kayla: Cult today blood over intent? Chris: Stop trying to guess. Kayla: Is it that? Chris: Wait, blood over what? Kayla: Oh, nevermind, never mind, never mind. Chris: Beg your pardon? Kayla: Never mind. We'll do that in a different episode. YouTube. I watch it a lot. Yeah, I wish I didn't, because. Chris: Yeah, were just watching YouTube. Kayla: We were just watching YouTube. Chris: Funny memes. Kayla: It's difficult to engage ethically with YouTube because I think that their practices as a company are extraordinarily unethical, and algorithm will destroy us all. I think that it's able to curate your experience. But even with you and I like only watching funny memes and physics stuff and golden girls bloopers, we still get Tucker Carlson said this, and Richard Spencer wants you to know that everyone wants to kill you. We still get that alt right shit slipping in.

11:55 Chris: Maybe you shouldn't search for Richard Spencer, though. Kayla: I don't. That's what I'm saying. Even if you fully curate your experience, the algorithm still pushes you towards the most outrageous. Chris: All I'm saying is maybe the algorithm knows something about your fundamental racism. Kayla: No, I'm saying that the algorithm does this by design, and YouTube will not deplatform these channels because they make them too much money. And the deplatform plandemic, they're partially responsible for the rightward trend towards extremism. Chris: Yeah. Kayla: Especially amongst youth. Chris: Yeah. And not just. But I love the funny meme general trend toward extremism. It's just right now, the problem seems to be the right word trend.

12:35 Kayla: Also, they're there to blame for the flat earth explosion. Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Which this is not a flat Earth episode, but we'll definitely talk about this if and when we do flat Earth. Kayla: Like, I wish there was a alternate. There is actually an alternative to YouTube, but it's like, it's just nothing. Chris: What? Vimeo? Kayla: I guess there is Vimeo. I don't really know how it works, but there's no. There's a socialist version of YouTube. It's called means tv. Chris: Oh. It's like socialist parlor. But see, here's the thing, Kayla. You're missing out on so much by having YouTube premium. Kayla: Oh, are you talking about ads? Chris: You're missing out on all these awesome ads. Kayla: I don't. I would. I would. It is way too expensive. I would never go back.

13:21 Chris: No, I can't go back. Kayla: Never go back. Chris: Cannot go back. And just to explain to our listeners, like, why, I can sit here and say, like, you're missing out on ads, like, why don't we. So we don't actually use the same YouTube account all the time. I don't log into Kayla's YouTube account from my personal device, from my phone because I don't want to mess with said algorithms recommendations for Kayla's YouTube, which use all this all the time on our, like, on our main. Kayla: Yeah, I'm gonna. That's a huge false. You have destroyed. Chris: Yeah, I know. No, I know. Kayla: But it is 100% for you. You have not only destroyed your own. Chris: Just because it's not like you have.

14:03 Kayla: Psychedelic crap as well. Chris: Yes. Okay, so. So fine. Let me restate this. I like to have. Kayla: You like to have both be for. Chris: Me, and I don't want to pollute the main account, which is under your name, with the stuff that I listen to from my phone, which is just like, entirely, like, ASM artists with the occasional dash of magic, the gathering and video game design. All I use my phone for on YouTube is to, like, plug in my headphones and go to sleep at night to some, like, hypnotist or something. Oh, yeah. Actually, I also have, like, twin flames bullshit after doing the research on my last episode. Kayla: Well, I guess that's. Yeah, I have Michaela Peterson now over our YouTube.

14:45 Chris: It's horrible. Anyway, so. Yes, I don't want to make our jointly used YouTube account become entirely about ASMR. So I keep my phone logged into my own account, but I'll be damned if we're gonna pay for two YouTube premium subscriptions. Kayla: It's only $30 a month for that. Chris: Jesus. Kayla: No, it's $15 for one. Chris: But if we wanted to pass. Pass, even though we're, like, paying for all this other stupid crap. But whatever. Anyway, so what's the upshot of that? I see ads. Not gonna lie. YouTube ads suck the worst a lot. Here's a rough profile of the ads. The kind of ads that I get served. I had, like, the squarespace ad get spammed at me for, like, four months straight because I had a tab open in my browser.

15:37 Kayla: Oh, geez. Chris: For squarespace. So, like, actually, we ended up doing our website on Wix, but for a while, I thought I was going to do it on squarespace. I don't know why. Because I've been brainwashed by other podcasters or something? Kayla: I don't. I'm sorry, but I don't like squarespace. Chris: No, I. It was. I don't want to, like. Oh. Because what if we. What if we need them as a sponsor? Kayla: They won't sponsor us because I. I just. Chris: I found it. I found their UI hard. Kayla: It wasn't good for me to use. No, yeah, I know. You were really frustrated, and I kept going, use wix. Chris: It was like a straight jacket. Kayla: Use wix. You wouldn't do it. Chris: I know. And then finally I did, and it was fine. But, like. And I. But I was like, I want a straight jacket. Cause I'm dumb, right? And even for me, it was like, no, no. I don't want that kind of straight jacket. Like, I want. I want rails. I don't want a straight jacket.

16:24 Kayla: Right. Chris: So, anyway, this is not about Wick. Sponsor us or Squarespace. I mean, I'll. We'll cut this if you want to. Kayla: Give us a call, squarespace, if you can give us a person to help us figure it out. Chris: Otherwise, no, no. Money, money. Kayla: Well, in addition, obviously, give us money. Make their website until they make it for us. Chris: Right? Yeah, that. Yeah. But, yeah, I just, like, was getting all these ads for squarespace in front of my YouTube videos. Like, I get it. You expanded your flower business thanks to Squarespace. Please shut up. Holy shit. It was getting old then. Do you remember that donation we got for my mom? It was, like, for. I want to say Mother's Day or something. For the international rescue committee.

17:06 Kayla: Yeah. Chris: Great gift, for sure. And I love the organization. They're great. But, like, even now in, what is this, September, I am still getting their ads on YouTube, and they're so depressing. Kayla: Oh, God. Chris: So it's like, every night before I go to bed, since, again, I use the ASMR videos to help me go to sleep. First, I'll see, like, the first, like, unavoidable 5 seconds of an ad spot about, like, how Covid is, like, ripping through some refugee camp or whatever. Kayla: Oh, geez. Chris: So it's probably not, like, the healthiest thing to go to sleep to constantly, but again, fuck paying for YouTube premium a second time. Not doing that. I'll. I'll. I'll watch the depressing thing. I'll be totally anxiety stricken.

17:52 Kayla: First, here's the thing I don't understand about these algorithms and about algorithms in general. How is it good business practice to advertise something to somebody that they've already purchased? Chris: Well. Cause they think you might like, especially for, like, a donation type thing. I get that. Because you might buy. You might donate again to them. People probably donate to them. Recurring a lot. Kayla: But it's like. It's like online when you like squarespace. Chris: I don't get. Cause, like, that you're. You don't. You know, you're done. You buy a pan, you buy a. Kayla: Pair of pants, and then you get a million ads for the same pair of pants. And it's like. Chris: Cause they want that. You want to use a return customer. Kayla: The exact. I'm saying the exact same pair of pants. Oh, the exact thing you bought. Why do you get an ad for that? Chris: I don't know. What if you shit your pants? Kayla: I guess maybe if you shit your pants, you'd need to get them again.

18:33 Chris: It's 2020, Kayla. It's a very pants shitting kind of year. Kayla: Back up pants. Chris: Yeah. And actually, now that I think about it, squarespace was advertising to me. Not. I hadn't already. Kayla: No, you hadn't bought it. You. Chris: That's why they were. Yeah, I had a tab open, and they were like, come on, pay us already. And lately. Holy shit. Kayla: Oh, God. Chris: I keep getting all these goddamn lyft ads, and they keep playing that Maya Angelou quote, the one that, like, used to be in front of the encarta thing, the one that's, like, the one that ends, like, and say, simply, very simply, with hope. Good morning. Do you remember that quote? Kayla: I've never heard that quote. Chris: That's because you were just a little bit too young in the nineties when Encarta came with every nineties PC.

19:19 Kayla: Oh, no, we had that. I just. Why would I ever open that? Chris: And that was, like, one of, like, the opening sound bites they would play. Anyway, now these. These goddamn Lyft ads came. Kayla: Lyft. Chris: Lyft. Lyft. Yeah, sorry, the rideshare company. And, like, oh, my God, I get it. We live in a corporate dystopia where even the art of poetry is just part of the system to get you to buy Lyft rides. But, like, sorry, Lyft, you're screwed. The pandemic screwed you. No amount of inspirational, lifestyle millennial targeted advertising is going to fix that. Kayla: Also, maybe I'd want to use your company if you had, like, better ethical practices. Chris: No, but all they have to do is play a quote by Maya Angelou, and now they're, like, moral and ethical and appeal to millennial sensibilities. Kayla, didn't, you know, false.

20:04 Kayla: Get out. We don't use Lyft because we want to. We use Lyft because we have to. Chris: Yeah. Anyway, keep getting that shit. And there's another company that keeps cropping up on YouTube ads for me. You know how, like, sometimes an ad will be actually compelling, just compelling enough that you, like. You don't actually hit the skip button after 5 seconds. Kayla: Yeah, and I hate myself during the entire time. Chris: Yeah, you feel so scummy. That happened to me with these guys the first time or two. Because their ads are like, oh, boy. Mm, mm. Kayla: Is that good or bad? Chris: They are. Their cult are just weird. Kayla: Oh, God. Chris: In fact, my assumption is that I'm getting targeted by these ads specifically because of all the research that we do for this show. We have the algorithms thinking that we are just, like, the most new age, woo, crazy pants people in the world. Cause I keep getting ads for this thing called Gaia TV, the topic of today's show.

21:03 Kayla: Have you talked to me about Gaia TV? Chris: Maybe. Kayla: What the fuck is Gaia TV? I hate it. I hate it already. I don't want to know. Is it a YouTube alternative for hippie dippies? Chris: I'm gonna show you some of these ads, and of course, I'm gonna link, where I can. I'm going to link these advertisements and videos and whatnot in the show notes. But first, sources for this episode. YouTube, obviously. Wikipedia also. Obviously, gaia.com. Gaia's Facebook page. A medium article written by a man by the name of Jordan Frazier. I don't. He's not, like, famous or anything, but he's written a lot of stuff on medium that I did some cursory vetting of Bloomberg, Yahoo Finance, something called Inc.com. Inc.com, a site called Trustpilot that compiles customer service reviews or customer reviews of apps and things like that. Glassdoor, and of course, Reddit, both r cults and a subreddit called commercials I hate. So I'm not alone. And another website that I don't want to reveal just yet.

22:16 Kayla: Oh. Chris: So are you ready to see some sweet ads? Kayla: I feel like maybe you showed me one of these already. Chris: It's time to. It's time to. Let's do some reaction videos. When I was born in the colony of Atlantis, I remember everything about our mother civilization, through the stories of my grandfather in that life. And one of the most important stories was that we all came from the breathing of the universe. The universe in that time was the consciousness of every dimension creating us. And the story said the first ones on arriving were the Nemnia, then the Sophia, then the Arithir, and then I, the Aesir. And the Aesir had sons and daughters with humans, and that created us. The SEM, the people from Atlantis. I am your host and guide, Matias Estefano. We will explore these families and how they shape Atlantis. Cultures across Peru say that they were told to make plant medicines by the star people.

23:36 Chris: Scientists have been able to detect a unified field of intelligent energy and permeates everything in existence. Kayla: This is physics, not just spiritual philosophy. Chris: So what'd you think about a couple of those ads? Would you like the cartoon aliens that they had? So part of why I wanted you. Kayla: To see those aliens. Chris: Yeah, I know, because you do research on, like, starseed shit. So part of why I wanted you to see that particular ad, why I searched for that for so long, I. Kayla: Have not seen giants and aliens together. That was a new one.

24:19 Chris: Well, I mean, come on, though. Kayla: I mean, obviously they go together, but I just hadn't seen them together like that. Chris: Right. Kayla: Also like that first one, especially the one. Chris: Was it the one called, like, if. Kayla: You'Re watching this and you see that and you go, oh, this, like, how could you look at that and see anything but bad? Chris: Yeah. So just to describe to our listeners, it's just like, it's all of the new age woo. Things. It's everything. So we'll talk about that in a second. But part of why I wanted to show you that last one in particular is just the way that he starts talking. So it's this guy named Matias de Stefano, who, by the way, is an atlantean.

25:00 Kayla: Definitely. Chris: There's another ad. Kayla: Wait, is he an atlantean or is he channeling an atlantean? Chris: No, he was born in it. Well, actually, I'm not sure. Kayla: So he probably was born as a guy named Bob, and now he's channeling. Chris: Could be that I was. I was not able to find information on that. But he does. In one of the videos, he says I was born in Atlantis. But it's not clear to me whether. Because the ad is just, like, cut together. It's not clear whether at the time he said that he was channeling. I don't know if the channels. Kayla: You didn't pay for Gaia tv. Chris: No, Kayla, I did not give them money. I considered it. I considered it, but there's. I mean, there's. They have plenty of, like, free content. Kayla: So I didn't actually do. Yeah, all the bad stuff is free.

25:44 Chris: Well, yeah, but in this case, it's more of, like, freemium. So anyway, so this. Yeah, he thinks he's atlantean or something. And the way he starts this video is that, like. So if you see pleiadian ships, they're encased in this sphere of light. So they, like, they. And several of these ads are like this where they just completely talk past the sale. Kayla: Right. Chris: You know, where they're just like, oh, wait, hold on. Back up. Pleiadian ships. What? Kayla: But it's. Chris: But they talk right past that into the, like. Well, yeah, they have spheres of light. Kayla: Because they're advertising to people who already are bought in on this. They're advertising to all of the people on Facebook that think that they're starseeds and channel Archer. They're not advertising to the people that don't. The uninitiated, they are advertising to the initiated.

26:30 Chris: Well, with those ones, yeah, maybe. But I think there's also an element of, like. I don't know. Again, it's like talking past the sail. It's like if you. Right, if you say sea guys, there's these things called pleiadian ships, then you. First you have to convince people that there's pleiadian ships. But if you say the pleiadian ships have spheres of light, then you've already done this sort of, like, psychological trick where they have to accept one thing to even engage with you on the other. Kayla: Right? Chris: So I think it's part of it. Kayla: Is that don't engage, guys. Chris: And the reason I say talking about the sales, because it's like a sales technique, it's like, you know, let me think of an example. It's like, you know when you have this vacuum cleaner, it's gonna be like. It hears all the things, awesome things that it does. Right? It's not like, do you want to buy a vacuum cleaner? It's once you have this in your house, blah, blah. Right? It's that type of thing. I'm probably not giving the best example there.

27:25 Kayla: No, that was fine. Chris: Thanks anyway. Just like we've talked about on this show. I don't know, like, at this point, probably like a dozen times when you get into new age. Woo. Everything has everything. Kayla: It's got it all. Chris: It's got all the stuff. We got aliens, we got akashic records, we got Atlantis, we got quantum flapdoodle. You remember that lady saying, this is not just philosophical spiritualism, this is physics. Kayla: Here's the thing. Chris: No, it's not. Kayla: I love all of this and they ruin it. Chris: I know. Kayla: They make it completely unenjoyable. Like, I would love to. I love all of this, but I love it because I know it's fucking fake and just fun to talk about, but they ruin it. They ruin it.

28:10 Chris: I know. It's like people that think that Lord of the Rings is real. Kayla: Yeah. Chris: There aren't. I mean, I don't think there's people. Kayla: Like that, but there's people who take it way too serious. They ruin it. Chris: That's true. That's true. And that's why I don't like it anyway. Yeah, no, we got naturopathic medicine curing cancer with whatever the hell they were talking about. We've got everything. In fact, do you want to see how much everything. Kayla: What does that mean? Chris: We'll take a look at Gaia's website in a sec, but first, let's put the brakes on real quick to actually tell you and our listeners what the hell Gaia is. Remember our episode on Romp, the School of enlightenment? Kayla: Yeah.

28:50 Chris: Remember the hook plot point for that episode? Remember what the bleep? Yeah, that was like. I mean, obviously there's RSE, there's the whole, like, school and there's Romthan, JDZ Knight and channeling Rob, blah, blah. But like, the interesting part for that episode that sort of differentiated that is that they have this, like, movie that got, like, this weirdly popular movie. Kayla: Yeah. It was the way that they broke into the mainstream. Chris: Yeah, exactly. So Gaia is like, if what the bleep and Netflix had a hideous devil baby. Kayla: Okay. Chris: It's a streaming service for documentary, quote unquote, videos and movies and things like that.

29:33 Kayla: So it's a YouTube alternative, more of. Chris: A Netflix alternative because it's more movies. It's more. Yeah, it's, like, produced stuff poorly in a lot of the cases of the reviews I read. And also, you saw those animations of those aliens. But it's a streaming service. And yes, they do have some free content, but it's more like freemium content. Kayla: It's like it's content to get you to buy the content. Chris: Exactly. It's content to get you to buy the content. Whereas, like, YouTube is the way they monetize is by saying, like, we're going to show you these shitty Gaia ads until you pay us. Kayla: Can I sidebar? Chris: Sidebar please. What podcasting's all about. Kayla: I learned recently that the new documentary on Netflix that I think many of our listeners would probably be interested in, the new NXiVM documentary called the Vow on HBO. Haven't watched it yet. Obviously, we're gonna get to it because NXivm is. Mwah. It is an MLM cult to the extreme.

30:34 Chris: Nxivm is too culty for the podcast. Kayla: Yeah, they're definitely not for the podcast. But in the documentary, much of the footage that is used is from one of the gentlemen who made the film. What the bleep. Chris: Oh, right. Kayla: Because he was also involved in NXivm. And so as he was involved, he was, like, documenting everything. And so this documentary was able to utilize that footage. I have not been able to figure out if he, like, got money from the Nexium documentary. That's why I have not watched it yet, because I don't want to benefit him. But I just thought it was interesting that the, what, the bleep guy has a connection to NXiVM. And we also mentioned what the bleep here.

31:19 Chris: So I just looked him up because I had a hunch. And yes, he indeed also produces content for Gaia tv. Kayla: Good old William Arentz. Chris: Of course. In fact, theres a piece here on gaia.com video. Why the bleep do we suffer with William Arntz on Gaia? Kayla: Because of people like William Arent. That is why we suffer. Chris: This is why we cant have nice things. But, yeah, its literally just like a streaming service for a proliferation of what the bleeps. Kayla: Do you think that's like one of the. Obviously, there's, like, ten other things that would happen if you could have a time machine and go back in time. But does that crack the top ten? Making that film never come out?

32:00 Chris: Maybe I don't know. I've also gotten, like, a lot of enjoyment out of it. Like, the drinking game. Kayla: I have zero enjoyment. I have zero. I have zero. It's horrible, but it's, like, so mad. Chris: But, Kayla, it's like the killing baby Hitler thing. It's like you don't know how you're gonna affect the time stream. And maybe there's, like, a, you know, worse. Kayla: What the bleep is. Chris: Like, a worse what the bleep that if you kill what the Bleep, then what the bleep? What the bleepier comes out, and it's even worse? I don't know. Or maybe you should kill baby Hitler. I don't know. It's hard to say. You should probably kill baby Hitler, and you should probably kill William O. Kayla: That's not where I was going, but I was just gonna, like, burn the negatives.

32:42 Chris: Oh, sorry. Yeah, you're right. Sorry. We don't end up. We don't endorse murder on this podcast. Kayla: No, we are a very anti murder podcast. Chris: Not a murder podcast. There's plenty of those. Kayla: Not part of the carceral state. Chris: Anyway. So, technically, Gaia has four different, like, I guess, channels, you could call them. They're called transfer, actually. They're sort of named differently in different places, but the most I could find was it was called transformation, alternative healing, yoga and seeking truth. So apparently, like, the yoga channel is mostly just fine. It's the other channels and specifically the seeking truth channel, where you get all the crazy ass bullshit. But don't take my word for it, though. Listen to the words of redditor criminalis. And this is from that. I hate commerc. Wait, no, it's r commercials I hate. I cannot possibly say if what they are doing is illegal. If they're advertising this pseudo scientific garbage is factual, then I would say yes. But I cannot make that conclusion without actually watching it first.

33:44 Chris: Unfortunately, my mind cannot cope with the amount of cringe, so I'll leave it as far away from my life as possible. For now, I would label it as highly immoral or unethical, but not illegal. That would be in the eye of the beholder, end quote. So, clearly, it's not illegal because there's, like, a huge business around it, which we'll get to. Kayla: Okay. Except mlms are illegal, but they're not. Yeah, but they, by the definition of the law, they are. They just still get to operate. Chris: Yeah, it's a. It's gray area. Kayla: It's just like. Like, it's how billionaires get together. Chris: It's legal but unethical. That's the whole system, though. Kayla: Like, you know, but here's my thing. Chris: What's your thing?

34:25 Kayla: Transformation. I know what that's about. Alternative, like, transformation. I'm like, that's all about, like, the, whatever, alternative healing. I know what that's about. Seeking truth. Like, like, those are all like, super duper. Woo woo. Chris: Yeah. Kayla: And then the fourth one is yoga. Chris: Yeah, yoga. Because once you do yoga is the gateway drug, man. Kayla: Like, is that what they're trying to do? Are they just trying to get people who want to watch, like, do yoga and then, like, why isn't, here's what we'll get to. Why isn't yoga under, like, alternative healing or something? Chris: We'll get to that. Kayla: I need to know. Tell me now. Chris: You will know. You will, you and our listeners, because. Kayla: One of these will both topics, one.

35:07 Chris: Of these categories, not like the others. Kayla: Not like the others. It is too narrow of a, there. Chris: Is an absolutely ironclad reason for why that is. Kayla: Okay. I'm very excited to learn. Chris: So going back to criminalis quote here. Yeah. Clearly it's not illegal because there's big business around it. But I just wanted to, like, read his quote because it kind of gives you an idea of what we're dealing with here. If the advertisements that you watched didn't, which they probably did, by the way, it's also mentioned in the same Reddit thread, and maybe you noticed this yourself. We actually talked about this a little bit. But part of what's so jarring about these ads is just like the matter of factness of the content that's being presented. Like the talking past the sale stuff. They talk about that in this Reddit thread, too. There's just, like, not even a tiny grain of contextual skepticism here.

35:51 Chris: There's no, like, some believe that this, it's simply this person talking about aspects and characteristics of pleiadian ships as if the spaceships themselves are completely given. And that's, there's other, that's not the only video that's like that. There's all of their videos, according to some people who watch them, that have reported on this and read it and elsewhere. A lot of them are like that. Kayla: The thing is, that shit gets me. It works on me because it gets me to go, I want to know more about this. And then I go and, like, research everything. Chris: Yeah, that's why they do it. Kayla: I know. I'm not gonna give them money for it. I'm just saying it does when it's with woo shit and somebody goes, like. And the stars in your brain do blah, blah. I'm like, well, I gotta. I gotta know where this came from.

36:33 Chris: The really dangerous stuff. I mean, this is dangerous, too, but the really dangerous stuff is when it's, like, just close enough to, like, something real, right? That you're like, what? Like that guy with, like, the multidimensional math thing that you follow. Kayla: I still believe it, but, I mean. Chris: That'S the thing, though, without the same. Kayla: Thing. Chris: Without having, like, a lot of domain knowledge on some of this stuff. Like. Like, there's stuff, like, we watch these physics videos on YouTube. Speaking of watching physics videos on YouTube, where if you don't have, like, a good background in physics or, like, know who to trust already. If you don't have a good trust network already, there's, like, not a face value. There's not that much difference in the craziness sounding of some, right?

37:18 Kayla: It's the same. And it's the same kind of production value. It's the same. Like, here's a really, like, here's an authoritative sound person. Chris: Yeah. Kayla: Who's telling you exactly the things about Mobius strips and. Yeah, string theory. Chris: I didn't know who that australian dude on PBS spacetime was a few years ago. So, like, I. He could have just come at me just talking about stuff, sounding authoritative. I happen to have a degree in physics, so I happen to know when he's talking about certain things that I can sort of, like, mentally vet them. And even when he talks about, like, new stuff now that I haven't heard of, I'm like, okay, well, this. This comports with all the other things. Kayla: I do not have a degree in physics. Chris: Right. Kayla: I like it enough to, like, be able to enjoy some of these videos. But then when you give me a video where it's like, zero and infinity are the same thing and let me take you through, I'll go like, yeah, right. I'm still part of that guy's call. I'm sorry.

38:07 Chris: Right? And, I mean, even that video we're talking. I know. We're, like, just, like, super inside baseball here. Like, remember that video you watched? We should find it and link it, but. Kayla: Oh, I can follow that guy on Twitter. Chris: Of course you do. But I got through probably two thirds of that video before I started going like, wait a minute. You know, like, the first bit of that video, I'm just like, this is an interesting metaphor about dimensional math. Kayla: There's actually two different videos. Was it there's two different videos. There was one that was specifically about dimensions. Chris: That's the one I'm talking about. Kayla: And then there was also the one where zero and infinity are the same thing. They kind of both said the same thing where it was just nothing and everything is the same thing. Like, it basically was like, look, once you get to a certain level of dimension, you become a point again. It was like. It started out like, you know, one dimension is a point or whatever.

38:54 Chris: Or zero. Kayla: Whatever. Chris: Yeah, that's zero. Kayla: And then by the end of, like, 27 or whatever, you go back to being a point. Chris: Not really, but, yeah, 127. Kayla: I don't know. I don't know how many it was, but however many dimensions it was, maybe I was eleven. Chris: Well, anyway, the point is, I can see just kind of bringing it back to the topic at hand today. Sometimes it's hard with this physics stuff to really, like, if somebody's presenting something authoritatively and they're using the same trappings, they're using the same vocabulary, and wearing the same types of clothes and speaking the same way, it's, like, hard to. Kayla: Discern because it all sounds like magic. Yeah, it all sounds. When physics does sound like magic.

39:35 Chris: Yeah. Kayla: And that's why it's so easily exploitable. Chris: Like, look at this. Oh, man. I was just actually looking at Brian Green's Twitter. And is Brian. Kayla: Is Brian Green still good? Chris: As far as I'm aware. I think he's, like, too. He's, like, too much of a, like, sciencey nerd guy to go back. Like, he. You know what I mean? Like, he's not like a really, like, I'm a face of things type guy. He's more of like a, I'm gonna sit down and write stuff and do science. Like, he's too, like, nerdy to go bad. But I mean, also, I thought that about a lot of people, so who knows? So he posted this equation. Kayla: I'm sorry. Chris: And that's real. But, like, tell me if you're looking at that it doesn't look as crazy or crazier than just, like, some crazy, like, rune spells.

40:22 Kayla: This would be. Somebody could take this and go like. And this is the language of the angels, right? Chris: Exactly. It's totally fucking batshit. Kayla: What is this equation, though? Chris: I'm not 100% sure. He says something. It has something to do with the standard model. It's probably some, like, something describing, like, a wave function or something. But anyway, I don't want to go too deep down that tangent, but it's just like, it's understandable that, like, especially with the physics related stuff, that it gets confusing. Here's another description of Gaia from their ad partner, which, by the way, this reads exactly like. It's like, copywritten by GaiuspR. But, quote, Gaia is the world's largest resource of conscious media with over 8000 ad free streaming titles to empower the evolution of consciousness with four channels to choose from. Yoga, seeking truth transformation. Film and docs. Wait, yeah, I don't know. Like, film and docs slash. I don't know why. As I was saying, some places it's called alternative health, and some places it's called film and docs.

41:19 Chris: I don't really get it. Kayla: Okay. Chris: Gaia customers seek content that inspires their community every single day. End quote. Kayla: Are you gonna tell me how many people, how many customers they have? Chris: So, according to Wikipedia, they currently have 500,000 subscribers. And I think that's a pretty reliable figure for reasons we'll get into. Yeah, so I. They use this word conscious everywhere. It's almost like a literary tick they have, right? Like, it's like they're a conscious company. We're making conscious media. We have conscious employees. Like, it's just everywhere. Talking about there's, like, in replies to people. Like, it's just. They're always saying conscious.

42:03 Kayla: I just. And I hate that word because I hate the implication of what other media is. Chris: Right. Yeah. Or other companies or other people. Kayla: It's such condescending bullshit. Chris: Yeah. It's like we're self advertising awoken and you haven't. Yeah, yeah. But it's like the fact they use it so much feels like they're overcompensating. Kayla: Well, yeah, of course they also. There's probably some algorithm that's like, this is the word that gets people to click. Chris: Yeah, actually, that's probably true. So this is maybe my favorite description of Gaia, and it's definitely my favorite Wikipedia description of a group we've talked about on the show. By far, Gaia, Inc. Is an international alternative media video streaming service, online community focusing on fringe science and yoga. As of 2018, it had over 500,000 subscribers and over 185 countries. Two, Gaia is an uncontrolled media platform that instead tells truth through science, history, and health practices, which in control mainstream media platforms state is conspiracy theories, quote, unquote, when in fact, it is the mainstream media that is lying.

43:10 Kayla: Wait, who said this? Chris: Wikipedia, end quote. That's their introductory description blurb on Wikipedia. Kayla: So what we need to be doing is camping on Wikipedia and changing I'm gonna go change that right now. Chris: Don't you love it? Kayla: No, I don't love it. Chris: It's like, the first sentence is, like, a normal description, and then it's like, when in fact, the mainstream media, that is lying. And it's, like, also written in, like, poor. Kayla: Yeah, it's not even really. Chris: Yeah, a sentence. Oh, and maybe I should have led with this, but their Wikipedia page has a disclaimer at the top. Quote, this article may have been created or edited in return for undisclosed payments, a violation of Wikipedia's terms of use.

43:56 Kayla: I have never seen that may require. Chris: Cleanup to comply with Wikipedia's content policies. September 2020. Kayla: I'm sorry. I think one of the worst Internet crimes is. Is fucking with Wikipedia. Chris: I agree, and it's pretty unforgivable. Kayla: I like. I hate you. Chris: But, Kayla. Kayla: No, in fact, the mainstream media. Chris: In fact, it is the mainstream media that is lying. Okay. Kayla: No. Chris: Sounds like a streaming service that our very own president would love. There are a few more descriptive quotes that I want to crank out here before moving on. This one's from that medium article I mentioned in the sources, and it's a. The article is entitled Gaia, the craziest streaming service or the most dangerous? Both, subtitled. Who's paying for this madness?

44:43 Kayla: 500,000 people? Chris: Here's the first quote. After my 8th experience being served ads for Gaia, I'm looking at you. Kayla: Don't look at me like Jim from the office. Chris: I finally decided to look into it. So this person literally had the same experience that I did. Just judging by the photos on their Facebook page, they struck me as a somewhat lower quality option when compared to Netflix. They also struck me as completely freaking insane. End quote. So, a bit further down from the same article, Gaia is in the business of pseudoscience, conspiracy theories, and alternative truths. And judging by the state of today's world, they've picked the perfect business for the perfect time. A little further down, they have episodes that talk about aliens and reptile humans that are somehow more ridiculous than episodes of Doctor who. And somehow, Doctor who does a better job of explaining how these creatures could plausibly be living among us without us knowing. Just like Doctor who, these episodes discuss matters of aliens and monsters as undisputed fact.

45:48 Chris: That's kind of what were talking about before, right? Kayla: Right. Chris: They don't worry about trying to convince you or ensuring you're on board. They just talk about aliens the same way you'd talk about breakfast. Kayla: They know who they're advertising to. Chris: They know who's they know what they're doing. Kayla: They know what they're doing. Chris: And finally, the service seems custom made for a very niche market of people who enjoy pseudoscience delivered as fact and really terrible animation. Some critics accuse the network of being dangerous, as most pseudoscience preachers can be, such as recommending alternative treatments for illnesses including cancer. However, I'm confident that if a person is paying a monthly subscription fee to learn what Gaia has to say, that person already believes that vegetable leaves can cure cancer. I believe that services such as Gaia exist to reinforce theories that people already have. So he kind of, he says, well, no, he's saying that it's, I don't know if he's saying it's not dangerous. He's just agreeing with you that this is like targeting people that already believe this stuff.

46:46 Kayla: Right. But I'm not saying that it can't proliferate. Chris: Yeah, of course. Right, right. I think there's kind of a both going on there. Kayla: Right. Chris: Gaia and services like it are an echo chamber that pats customers on the back for having an unusual worldview. Although I'd better be careful when being too critical of Gaia. Former Gaia filmmaker Patty Greer accused guy of using directed energy weapons against critics, a statement he later apologized for making, end quote. So. Kayla: That'S so good for so many reasons, because all of these people believe in directed energy weapons and they all think that the government is using them. And then I really like that this person was like, and this company did it at me too.

47:42 Chris: Yeah. Oh, so the blogger here again, that's. Kayla: What started all the fires. Just so you know. Chris: Oh, is it? Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. To distract us from the Democrat pedophile rings. Kayla: People really believe that? Chris: Yes, I know. The blogger here finishes out his piece with a dire warning that he may be a victim now of such an attack. Joking here, in case that wasn't clear and shit, now cult of just weird might be on their hit list too. Kayla: Has anyone ever heard from this blogger again? Chris: I don't know. Oh, actually, I did see that he had written other articles since. Kayla: Do we know it's him or is it a reptilian posing? Chris: That's true. He could have. That's right. It's probably that. Do we even know that we're not reptilians?

48:24 Kayla: You're definitely a reptilian. We should post that picture I took of you where you look like a. Chris: Reptilian, where I have the, like, slit eyes for some reason. Yeah. But anyway, so just be on the lookout for energy weapons being shot at us. So it's like, shit. Jay Z Knight and TFU maybe litigious, but, like, at least they won't laser us. Kayla: They might laser us. The TFU, I don't think, could Jay z Knight. Maybe Jay Z Knight could try because. Chris: She has access to ancient lemurian technology. Oh, I wonder if she. Kayla: But TFU is Master Christ. So maybe they could just smite us, right? Chris: That's true. Do you think that Romtha and Matias de Stefano are, like, rivals because one's lemurian and one's atlantean? Kayla: Oh, God, I want them to have.

49:04 Chris: A romance because they were at war. Kayla: Yeah. Chris: Back in the day, I would pay. Kayla: So much money for. Somebody write me a fanfiction. Chris: You're a writer. Kayla: I don't write fanfiction. Chris: Just write it. Kayla: No, somebody write a tv show. I want to enjoy it. So somebody, I will pay you $50 for that fanfic, okay. You can write it off on our taxes. Chris: Listeners, we're crowdsourcing this $50. We ship Matias de Stefano and Romfo. But, like, would the channelers be in love and the channelees be at odds or vice versa? Or are they all four in love? How does that work?

49:46 Kayla: I just want the channel. Lee's. Chris: So you want rom tha Romtha and the Atlantean. Okay, we're not sure that he's channeling. We're not sure. Be that old. Kayla: And the atlantean. Chris: Okay, whoever that is. Got it. All right, that's enough for now. Of other people describing Gaia. Let's dig a little bit more into their content ourselves, shall we? Kayla: I don't want to. Chris: A few moments ago, before we listed those quotes, were talking about how, like, the everything is everything aspect of wooness. Well, feast your eyes upon their own website's topic listing. Kayla: Oh, God, this is my favorite part.

50:26 Chris: We're not even gonna have time to say all of these on the show. Kayla: Yoga. Oh, I love it so much. Oh, my God. I'm already in love with it. Chris: Do you see all of these topic listings? Kayla: That's not that many. Chris: Afterlife, aging, longevity. Aliens, alternative realities. Ancient civilizations. Decoded. Ancient Egypt. That's the real gateway drug right there, right? Ancient lost technology, ancient symbols, angels, astral projection. Ayurveda be the change. And this again, I cannot listen to this in cabal and order. Chemtrails. Conscious parenting, divine feminine. Kayla: Oh, God, give us money. Chris: Sacred relationships. Ooh, I wonder if they. I'm sure they believe in twin flame.

51:07 Kayla: Yoga, off the mat, secret space program. Chris: Pineal gland. Kayla: Oh, God. Chris: I don't know why that is. Kayla: You don't know what the pineal gland is? Chris: Oh, is that like a magic. Kayla: It's your third eye. Oh, everybody has a pineal gland, but it's. They think it's just like a thyroid thing, I think. But they're like, oh, yeah, the pineal gland is where your third eye is. So it's like it gets calcified. Chris: Got it. Forbidden science. And then there's just, like, normal stuff, too, like meditation, nutrition, indigenous cultures, mindfulness, nature, and animals. But then it goes like, esoterics, emotional healing, universal consciousness, and then financial system. Universe is a hologram. Wait, that's real.

51:49 Kayla: I want to get. I want to get this. I want to watch all of these. Chris: Oh, and I like this one. Breathing. Kayla: Breathing. Click on breathing, please. Chris: Breath is life. Humans can endure periods of food and water deprivation without oxygen in the breath, so at least they're, like, not total breatharians. Kayla: I wouldn't say that. Chris: That's probably not true. Yeah, well, it's just like, breathing. It's. Look, it's all this, like, meditation stuff. This is. Kayla: I bet there's breath arianism on here. Chris: Relatively normal. Kayla: I bet you if you go to nutrition, there's breath arianism. Chris: I'm sure there's everything. You saw the list. Everything is everything these guys are so. Everything is everything that they might as well slap, like, a giant QAnon on their homepage and be done with it. Yeah, but I think that, like, part of why their scope is so enormously broad, though, like, even more so than, I think most new age stuff we look at is that they're a streaming service dedicated to this stuff. So, like, it's the same reason Netflix has tv and movies across all genres and interests and whatnot. Like, it's.

52:44 Kayla: No, no, they only have four categories. Movie, tv, yoga. Chris: And total bullshit. But, yeah, it's like. It's just like Netflix, where you need to have a lot of content to justify subscribing to the service, which, by the way, for. Oh, here's where I list the price for Gaia. That'll cost you a cool $11.99 a month. Kayla: Geez. Chris: Which is less than Netflix, but more than, like, paying me $1,000, which is what it would take to get me to sit through a full episode of one of their documentaries. Kayla: Really? You wouldn't do it for five Hundo? Chris: Oh, no, I probably do it for, like, one hundo. Yeah, well, it depends on the length. If it's, like, one of those 30 minutes documentary. Yeah, $100. But if it's like, yeah, one of those, like, six or seven hour marathons, like, now we're talking, like, probably a $1,000. That's a long ass time. And also, I need to be able to have my phone and do other things.

53:36 Kayla: No, what if you couldn't? Chris: Ooh. Like, if I had to sit there and stare at one of these things for 7 hours. Kayla: Yeah. Chris: That's, like, ten grand. Kayla: I think that's 7 hours of your life that you're never getting. Chris: Yeah, I know. Actually, that's. I feel like ten grand is not enough when you describe it that way. Kayla: Yeah, but it is. I would. I would spend 7 hours staring at my phone. Chris: Right. I will melt my brain on Twitter. Thank you. So, thoughts so far? Kayla: None. Chris: My brain blank out. Kayla: Melted out. My ears. It just. Again, I'm like, we. Why? Why are we doing this? Why aren't we doing that? We could be so rich. Chris: I know. I know.

54:17 Kayla: We could be so rich if we just got on here and talked about, like, literally. Chris: I know. Kayla: I could talk about all of this shit. Chris: We know the formula. I know. I know. Kayla: How do you keep the, like, ethical part of your brain off? Chris: I think it just comes that way. Kayla: I think I'm done believing in the drinking your own Kool aid thing. I think all these people are evil. Well, yeah, but I think they're all socio evil sociopaths. Chris: We've said this in the show before. I think. I'll say it again. I think even the ones that drink their own Kool Aid, the part of them that knows. Knows. Kayla: Yeah. Unless you're like. Like. Like, have a diagnosable. Chris: Yeah. Which is reality. Probably half of these people anyway. But anyway, Gaia, it's like, what the bLeep? If what the bleep just proliferated all over the place.

55:04 Kayla: I feel heavy. Chris: I feel like the bleep spam. Kayla: I wish I didn't know, because I just have a huge, like, weight on my shoulders now. I'm like, this exists in the world? Chris: Yeah. Oh, it gets worse, Kayla. Kayla: It's only a matter of time before it. It's way bigger than it is now. Chris: There's another similarity to what the bleep is that the fact that this is primarily a business, like RSC. But here's the scary thing, though. Ramtha's school of enlightenment is just, like, a crappy little private enterprise. Kayla: Is this an MLM, too? Chris: I mean, probably cause everything is. But, like, just to remind you, like, here's Ramtha's website. It's, like, kind of looks like it was made in 1997. Oop. Oop. There's the music. Hold on.

55:46 Kayla: I hope it looks pretty good. Chris: It's not bad. It's not, like, geocities, but I've seen better. By the way, listeners, we totally need to change our website's design. Like, we have such, like, a 2020 aesthetic. We're really. We've been talking about going back to, like, a 1995 aesthetic. Kayla: We're gonna do it. Chris: We're gonna do it. Kayla: Like, I don't want. I love the website. Chris: Our current websites. Kayla: Like, it's minimalist garbage, but I. I'm sick of the fucking Internet 2.0. Give me back to Internet one. Chris: Yeah. Goddamn right. Kayla: Fucking Facebook. Chris: Yeah. So, like, RSC is, like, this crappy little private enterprise, but Gaia. Kayla: No, no, don't. I don't want to hear what you're gonna say now. I don't want to talk about this part. No, this is horrible.

56:27 Chris: Oh, no, my friend. No, no. Kayla: Oh. Chris: Gaia is a publicly traded corporation on the Nasdaq stock exchange. Kayla: Should we invest? Chris: Oh, yeah. I actually read, like, a bunch of, like, financial reports and sites and, like, seeking alpha and stuff just to kind of, like, do research for this. And unclear, but yes, they are on the Nasdaq stock exchange. That means they have SEC reporting requirements. They're tracked by analysts. They're probably part of some, like, hedge fund portfolio somewhere or something. Hell, you can go buy shares right now if you want to. Kayla: Oh, my God. Do you know what I want? Do you know what I want?

57:09 Chris: Desperately, which you just suggested, so that was kind of didn't play nice with my script. Kayla: Sorry. Chris: That's what happens when I. When I read too verbatim. What do you want? Desperately? Kayla: I want. I want a version of succession, but it's the Gaia family empire. Chris: It feels like that must exist. What, like a. Like a woo succession? Kayla: Like a television show of that? Chris: Yeah. Kayla: It doesn't. Chris: Oh, maybe I'm thinking of, like, the righteous gemstones, which is, like, the televangelist. Televangelist version of that. Kayla: Oh, my God. The funniest joke in golden girls. Chris: So Kayla's been watching a lot of golden girls. The funniest jokes, in case that's not clear.

57:52 Kayla: There's a lot of funny jokes. The funniest joke in golden girls is the other day, and Sophia has a near death experience, and she goes to heaven. And, like, I don't know angel is there and he's welcoming her and he's like, oh, I gotta go. There's a televangelist coming. And she was like, well, what's the big deal about that? And he's like, well, we've never had one before. Chris: That's awesome. That show has the sickest burns on television. Kayla: Oh my God. I know. It's so good. Chris: Holy shit. Some of those burns make it like hot in the house. Kayla: I know, that's awesome. Chris: So, yeah. Kayla: But yeah, I want a success. A woo success. Chris: Oh, I think. I think that's a great idea. I would love that. That would be amazing. Like take elements from like Goop and Gaia and all. Yeah, all sorts of stuff. So yeah, take what the bleep and not only proliferate it, but turn it into a large enough enterprise to be worth. And I can actually check this because again, publicly traded $198 million.

58:50 Kayla: I'm sorry, who's behind who get where's all the money? Chris: Which is a ton of money. Well, like it's. Again, it's a corporation. So it's like, you know, it's the shareholders. Kayla: Who's the richest person involved? Chris: Probably their CEO. Kayla: What's his name? Chris: We'll get to that. And so, yeah, so $198 million is a ton of money. But to be fair, Jeff Bezos could afford 1000 of them. So it's all relative, I guess. Yeah. He could only buy 1000 Gaia corporations. Kayla: Really? Chris: I know. What a fucking cheapskate, right? Kayla: Like 10,000. Chris: It's $198 million. Jeff Bezos is worth 180. I want to say six ish as of the time of this recording.

59:31 Kayla: When is he gonna be a trillionaire? Chris: Bills? He's still good. Decent ways away from that. He's still like, he needs to seven x's worth to do that. Kayla: So at the end of the panda, eight x. Yeah. Chris: So like 2021, but also. Kayla: Okay, remember how before were like, we don't advocate murder on this. Chris: If he purchased a thousand Gaia Inc. Corporations, he wouldn't have any money left over for like a learjet or whatever. Kayla: Yeah. Chris: So he could only buy 1000 of those corporations and then he'd be destitute. Kayla: Jeff Bezos, you hear that? Redistribute your wealth to the woo sector. That's what we advocated. Chris: Oh God, please. There's already plenty of like naturopathic shit all over Amazon. It's already done.

1:00:14 Kayla: You could probably kill yourself very easily with things they sell on Amazon. Chris: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So you might remember from earlier in the show, I cited a quote from guy's ad partner. It's called adparlor.com. And you might also remember us starting the show talking about how I was blitzed by their ad campaign on YouTube. Kayla: Yes. Chris: You might further remember that the medium blogger had that sort of same experience, and there's that whole subreddit of people being like, why am I getting blasted by these ads? Well, it turns out that's because their strategy is growth, right? And they know where the good money bets are. Since they are a publicly traded company, that means we have access to their SEC filings and thus their financial reports. So I have a bit of experience here with my grad degree and some of the jobs I've done over the years. So I took a look at their income statements for the last two calendar years, 2018 and 2019, just to track a hunch, and did indeed confirm, said Hunchdev in 2019, they had a top line revenue of 53 million.

1:01:12 Chris: So top line revenue is just like the revenue you make before you subtract any expenses. But that's not what's interesting. What's interesting is that their marketing spend, and technically speaking here, if you actually go look this stuff up, which you probably won't because it's boring, but technically, that's their selling and operating spend category. But just think of it as marketing, since that's the vast majority of it. So their marketing spend was 58 million. Kayla: Wait, what? Chris: Which, you'll notice they went cash negative by $5 million, just in the marketing budget alone, not counting any other expense categories. Yeah, 2018 was even more upside down with a much lower revenue of 41 million and a much higher marketing spend of 67 million. So they're upside down there by $26 million. Just, again, on marketing alone.

1:01:59 Kayla: Are they just doing that new thing where it's just like, you operate at a negative until you're the only one? Chris: Right. And that's not, I mean, it's sort of new. It's new. It's new to the, like, extreme degree. Right. And that's like a whole other topic on the show. Maybe when we talk about Silicon Valley, at some point we'll talk about that. But, yeah. So this may sound crazy if you're not like a business person, but it's actually perfectly normal, expected, and can even beneficial to spend more money than you're making if your goal is growth. So you do things like raise money or borrow money to cover those costs. Right? That's how you like, that's where that phantom money comes from. So the idea is that you, like, borrow a bunch of money upfront, use it to acquire customers and spend on getting customers. And if your subscription service is good enough, then those customers have a certain lifetime value, right.

1:02:50 Chris: They'll subscribe for years to come. And then the idea is that you pay back your loan and then some, and that's you can leverage your growth. Kayla: My eyes glazed over. Chris: Yeah. Okay. Kayla: Math. No, I get it. I'm getting. I'm kidding you. I'm kidding. Chris: You're eyes always glaze over when I do my episodes. Kayla: No, your episodes are so good. Chris: Mmm. Kayla: Just when you talk about math. Chris: So these details are not to say they have bad business practices. Rather, I think this is probably a reason why me and so many other people see these ad blitzes from them. Clearly they're trying to grow their user base and they're spending plenty to do it. You know, their user base that goes and watches things like, could rh negative blood be alien in origin? And.

1:03:32 Kayla: Oh, my God, that's so evil. Do you know what that is? Chris: Nephilim. The ashes of angels. I did look it up a little bit, but please enlighten us. Kayla: Well, because that's like. I think I could be wrong, but one of the, like, major reasons why a person would need to know if they're rh negative or positive is for pregnancy purposes. Chris: Yeah, I did see that. Kayla: And if you're rh negative. No, if you're rh. Chris: Wait, I forget which way it goes, but if you're pregnant, you need to know. Kayla: If you're pregnant, you didn't know because one of them makes it treat the bait. The fetuses blood as, like, something that needs to be, like, attacked. Chris: Yeah. Kayla: You have to, like, take medication in order to, like, not make sure that the blood and the fetus.

1:04:13 Chris: Right. Because otherwise the fetus can have, like, deadly anemia. If. Yeah, I. But it's pretty rare, I think. But here, I forgot to show you their Facebook page. So check this out. Lucid dreaming. Quantum revolution. Kayla: Oh, it's spelled. And it's spelled out like the. What, the bleep style? Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Let's see. Sacred power, living an empowered life. Nephilim. Beyond the. I just talked about that one. Oh, man. It's. There was a video here a second ago that was talking about fasting as being a solution for everything, which is pretty much in line with your second or third episode this season. I mean, lucid dreaming is potentially real. Yeah. I don't know. And, like, literally, I just loaded this page up yesterday, so I don't know.

1:05:00 Kayla: If there's much scientific evidence for lucid dreaming. Chris: Yeah. Yeah, that's. Kayla: I think it's mostly anecdotal. Chris: Right. Let's see here. Oh, yeah. They have a lot of stuff on, like, psychedelic drug use and stuff. Kayla: Hell, yeah. Chris: You know, that. That stands for. Kayla: I think there is some, like, actual science being done in that field. Chris: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's a whole other topic. Yeah. Kayla: But again, that's the problem, is that there's, like, phantom DNA in the soul's sense of smell. Chris: Yeah. Yeah, that's a video. Yeah, we're just scrolling down their facebook page here, people. It's pretty great, but. Yeah, one of the things on here, if I. I guess I can't find it now, but it's like, could rh negative blood people mean that, like, it's blood from alien ancestors?

1:05:43 Kayla: I think rh negative is the most common one, I think. Chris: Or whatever it is. No, I think positive is actually, I don't know. Kayla: I think our age, because I think I'm rh negative. Chris: Oh, well, maybe you're an alien. Kayla: No, because I don't have the. I have the normal blood. Chris: Not if you're an alien. Kayla: I'm just saying it behooves them. Chris: That's. Oh, my God, that's another tv show. I married an aliena. That's already a teaser. Kayla: It behooves them to make the more common one, the alien one. Chris: Oh, because then you can be like, ooh, look at me. Yeah, everybody's an alien and cool, right? And look, you mentioned this before. I don't want to, like, totally shit on content like this because, like, I enjoy playing World of Warcraft. I enjoy watching the witcher. It's. It's just like we said before, it's presented as scientific fact, just, like, outside the mainstream.

1:06:32 Kayla: Like, why can't this all be fun speculation? Why does it have to be scientific? Why can't it be fun speculation? Chris: I don't know. I think maybe it, like, loses some of its power. Kayla: Yeah. Chris: If you do that, it's. I don't know. Kayla: It does. I mean, it does. Chris: And I guarantee you, by the way, this kind of garbage is both gateway and reinforcement of QAnon bullshit. Guarantee. Kayla: Oh, yeah. It's all like. That's the thing, is that I haven't used Facebook in a while, but I'm still in all of those different groups of people who believe they're aliens, and we're all transcending into crystalline structures and also QAnon groups, and they overlap on a lot of things. They overlap on the anti vax stuff. They overlap on mainstream media is satanic and pedophilic, and they overlap on a lot of this stuff.

1:07:22 Chris: Right, but is it a cult, though? Kayla: Is what a cult? Gaia. Chris: Gaia. We haven't even talked about the charismatic leader yet who I think is, like, our. The only real candidate for that is their CEO. It's like, just. Spoiler alert. He's not. He doesn't seem like the typical. Kayla: Like, he's boring. Yeah, I hate it when they're boring. Chris: But his name's not boring. His name is Jurka Risevi, I believe is how you pronounce it. I think. Use checklists of occu. We'll get to them in a second. So you know how you always wind up doing a Google search along the lines of is blank? Is my topic a cult? Like, you just always kind of type that in Google? Pretty much every time.

1:08:03 Kayla: Of course. Chris: So that search this time turned up a bunch of reviews on Glassdoor. Kayla: What? Chris: When I did that search, that's what I got. I got Glassdoor reviews. So. Kayla: So people are. Chris: Do. Do we need to. Let's explain Glassdoor real quick for our listeners. Do you want to explain that? Sorry, I'm putting in the spotting. Kayla: Always do it. Chris: I mean, I can do fine. I will stop putting you on the spot. Kayla: I will do it. Glassdoor is a website where employees can review the hiring practices, corporate culture, payment practices, wages of a given company. And you give. It's like Yelp, but for yelp, for employers. Reviews of employers.

1:08:48 Chris: Yeah, exactly. So I found a bunch of hits on Glassdoor for this. Gaia as a company has 2.7 out of five stars on Glassdoor. For reference, the average company rating on Glassdoor is 3.3. So we're more than, like, a full half star point rating below average, which is pretty bad. Now, I'm not saying that being a bad company to work for necessarily makes you a cult, because there are a lot of bad companies to work for. Kayla: And a lot of them are cult like, though. Chris: But it's more the reasons that folks are stating on Glassdoor. Kayla: Right? If the reasons on Glassdoor are like, they have bad pay and poor working conditions, it's like, okay, well, capitalism, join the fucking club. But if it's like, they're bad company because they're a cult, then maybe they're a cult.

1:09:37 Chris: Well, how about this review entitled am I in a cult? Does that clarify? Kayla: I think nine times out of ten, if you have to ask that question, the answer is yes. Chris: The answer is. Oh boy. Kayla: The answer is run in the opposite direction. Chris: So here's the review. I worked at Gaia full time for more than three years. And so they're all the reviews on glassdoor, like structured relatively the same. They say like how long you've worked there. Pros, cons, advice to management. So the pros, awesome cafeteria. Kayla: That's a good pro. Chris: Great location, great benefits. Mostly great coworkers coming and going through a constant revolving door. If you have any qualms about pledging your undying allegiance in writing to an ideology compromised of conspiracy theories, you probably won't be happy here. If that kind of thing doesn't really bother you, apply away. I stayed for the benefits until it was no longer morally palatable.

1:10:27 Kayla: I want to work for them right now. I want to. I want to work for a company that makes me sign an undying pledge to the ideology. I don't actually want that. Capitalism can suck a dick. Chris: Advice to management from this person. Not everyone is interested in both yoga and aliens. I'm not saying either interest is bad, but you'll be left with a very small pool of qualified candidates if you continue to insist on this prerequisite. Kayla: That's really interesting that you have. They want you to drink the Kool aid if you work there. Chris: Well, so when I worked at Blizzard, it wasn't a quite this bad. Like I don't want like. And I think this is common in the gaming industry. I want to just call out Blizzard for this. And it's like not a bad thing. It's just like it can lead to some pathologies, I think. But like one of the things that we liked to see in candidates when we did interviews was that they were a, they were gamers and b, they were blizzard gamers.

1:11:19 Kayla: Right. Chris: And so a lot of Blizzard employees are just Blizzard fan. Former Blizzard fans or still Blizzard fans. Kayla: Right. Chris: Blizzard fans that decided to go work for the mothership. So there's like this seamless integration, this seamless blend between like Blizzard fans and Blizzard employees that maybe makes it a little bit cult like. Kayla: It's really interesting because I think that you're right that's definitely like a gaming company thing. Because like I think about television and you go interview for a job. Like yes, if you want to work in tv, it's expected that you watch and like tv and you're able to speak to that. It's not necessarily required that you like are a fan of the shows that.

1:12:01 Chris: Like Warner Brothers shows. Kayla: Yeah, if you're gonna go for a Warner Brothers job. Like, yes, it's great if you can. If you can authentically speak to your enjoyment of those shows, but really it's about like, do you watch in, like, tv? Not necessarily. Do you watch in like this? Chris: Yeah. And again, there were definitely candidates that we hired that didn't have much gaming experience and didn't have much experience with blizzard products. And I actually like some of those, ended up being our strongest hires. And I'm not saying it's like a bad thing to try to get people that know the product, but what I am saying is that if you only hire those people, then you end up with this sort of myopic worldview and it can reflect in the product. And I think that this is a whole thing to talk about. So I don't want to go into it, but I think that did happen in some cases with Blizzard. Interesting. But, you know, whenever we did hire someone that was, that brought a more diverse viewpoint. It was like, it added a ton of value.

1:12:59 Kayla: Diversity is generally a strength. Chris: Yeah. So here's another nice little snippet from another one. We did not hear from Jurka. That's, again, the CEO. We did not hear from Jurka one time during the entire Covid crises. Kayla: Oh. Chris: CEO's neurosis around remote work and pandemic related conspiracy considered higher priority than employee health. Yikes. Kayla: Oh. Chris: There's another one entitled toxic, spiteful. The rumors are true. It's a cult. Or how about this title? And this is again, titles of these reviews. Don't let the mission fool you. It's a cult with no real ethical leadership. Kayla: So I think if multiple people working there going, it's a cult. It's a cult. It's a cult. It's a cult.

1:13:44 Chris: This quote from another review helped me understand the split between the two major parts of their business, which you sort of brought up before. Gaia basically produces two types of video content. The first is yoga related. These offerings are standard high quality classes and practices with a nice variety of styles and teachers. The people at Gaia who create this content are, as you'd expect, pretty chill. They tend to view the world as a beautiful place populated by people with good intentions. Kayla: That's nice. Chris: The other content type is called seeking truth, but should be called seeking truthiness, promoting fringe ideas like alien civilizations, past lives, and pseudoscience. Seeking truth. Content producers believe the world is run by a secret cabal whose far flung conspiracies are suppressed by the mainstream media. Their version of the world is a dark and dangerous place about which we have all been lied to our entire lives. Only Gaia reveals the truth. As you might imagine, these opposing worldviews make the yogis and the truth seekers work together about as smoothly as rocks in a blender. End quote.

1:14:44 Kayla: That is from a next door. Chris: No, it's from Glassdoor. Kayla: From Glassdoor. That's from a Glassdoor review. Chris: That's from a glassdoor. Kayla: This person's a beautiful writer. Chris: I know some of these guys can write sometimes. Or gals. Kayla: I'm not gonna lie. I've just, like, read Glassdoor reviews just for fun. Chris: Yeah, you just go to read glass door reviews? Yeah, like, for companies you hate to, like, get some tea or. Kayla: I don't know, but I've read a lot of glass door reviews. Chris: That's weird. Kayla. Kayla: No, they're rocks in a glass door. Chris: Okay, yeah, fair enough. This guy. Actually. Yeah. So. And then finally this last one. And I'll stop spamming you with Glassdoor reviews entitled Friendly People Toxic Company.

1:15:25 Kayla: Cool. Chris: It reads, I worked at Gaia full time for more than a year. Pros, interesting people. Gym, yoga classes. That makes sense. Great food, walking trails. Kayla: That's cool. Chris: Tl doctor. Don't work here unless you want to contribute to brainwashing hundreds of thousands of subscribers. I don't want to do that if you're already brainwashed. Congratulations. You're hired. Gaia presents itself as a video streaming service for conscious media. There's that word again. To help people live happy and healthy lives. The three channels this conscious media split up into are yoga, transformation, and seeking truth. Working in the marketing department, it became abundantly clear that the two former channels, yoga and transformation, are merely gateways for indoctrinating viewers into the latter, more controversial channel seeking truth, this channel is riddled with insidious content like government conspiracies, secret space program, whistleblowers, blue bird like aliens, and lizard people secretly running the world.

1:16:27 Chris: The video content is all geared to instill fear and paranoia as to render the viewer incapable of unsubscribing for fear that they may miss some key information that could affect their lives. If you haven't watched any of Gaia seeking truth content, just imagine ancient aliens, but with 110 the budget and either an old man talking at you or a smirking used car salesman spewing pseudoscientific space words at you. I can't stress enough how dangerous it is propping up these conspiracy theorists with little to no grasp on actual science and presenting their notions as fact. It's fun to imagine these ideas as a reality, but in the age of alternative facts, Guy is doing nothing but making people misguided, unhealthy, and paranoid when it comes to hiring.

1:17:09 Chris: Upper management has been blunt about only hiring people in the space, and there is no room at Gaia for individuals who reject our mission or feel cynical about our goals or our content. This has led to a new policy of having all new hires have a final interview with the owner of the company where they can be vetted for how in the space they actually are. Being a yogi that's a yoga instructor is no longer good enough to be considered for a position of the company. One needs to have some sort of quirky interest, or better yet, be a Gaia subscriber for multiple years. Kayla: Oh, that makes sense. Chris: As you can imagine, this makes the hiring process very difficult and very long, because finding someone who is highly skilled in the job's responsibilities isn't nearly enough. More often than not, a candidate's beliefs hold more weight than their ability to perform the desired job successfully. End review. Quote. And there's a bunch more. I just don't want. Like I said, I don't want to be sitting here on the podcast just reading Glassdoor reviews for an hour.

1:18:11 Kayla: It's fun, though. Chris: It is fun. Maybe. Oh, man, that's like a new format. We should spin off another. Another podcast. Glassdoor reviews. We just sit and read Glassdoor reviews. Kayla: Sounds good to me. Chris: We'd probably get, like, way more subscribers. Kayla: Well, also, we would be. It would be very unethical. Chris: Well, I mean, we'd cite people. We would say, like, this is from Glassdoor. Actually, we literally can't, because they're anonymous by design. Kayla: It's a little exploit. Chris: Yeah, that's what this podcast is. That's what I just did. Kayla: No, it's part of it. Not. The whole thing is the thing. Chris: Okay, so as long as I quote from that and Wikipedia, now I'm integrating. Kayla: Yes. Chris: And I made little motions with my little hand motions when I said integrating.

1:18:52 Kayla: I don't like this company, and I don't even. It's a cult. We're done. We don't need to get to the criteria. It's a cult. The end. Chris: A lot of the other reviews also talk sort of like how this one did, but they talk about the overall poor leadership of the C team and especially the CEO. Again, Yerka Rise. And to be fair, there are a bunch of good reviews, too. There's not only bad reviews. Like, there's never only bad reviews or only good reviews, but it's like. It's also, like, kind of hard to parse out which of these are real or nothing, right? So that's why I mentioned at the top, I mentioned their overall star rating average and how that compares to the average of the rest of the companies on Glassdoor. Because the combination of the low average and the reason the people are giving, that's, like, why they're. It has a low average, I think, is what's important, right?

1:19:44 Chris: So it's like, not only is it low, here's why. And not only are there bad reviews, there's enough bad reviews to make it this low average. Kayla: Gotcha. Chris: So let's dig just a little bit into Yerke recivy, because we have to talk about charismatic leader. He's the CEO of Gaia, Inc. Here's some basic facts from a bio of him and his business on Inc.com. That's Inc. Not K. Born in Czechoslovakia in 1954 at 20 years old. Kayla: Reached my full height of six five. Chris: That dude's been tweeting a lot about, like, anti vax shit. Yeah. Kayla: Oh, my God. I'm shocked. Chris: I know. I know. Weird, right? So Jurka's parents, his father was a civil engineer. His mother was an educational researcher. His education is a master's in engineering, Technical University of Prague, 1983. This sounds all really woo, doesn't it?

1:20:34 Kayla: No. Chris: His first job was a print shop worker in Boulder, Colorado. He was hired immediately after arriving in the United States and just before starting his first company. Then the article goes on to talk about the business that he founded, an office supplies business called Corporate Express called Dunder Mifflin. And apparently it got big enough to get into the Fortune 500 company. I'd never heard of this. Kayla: Corporate Express. Chris: Corporate Express. They sold off. They were like a competitor to Staples. Kayla: Corporate Express. Chris: They were literally Dunder Mifflin. Okay, but, like, what? Kayla: When Dunder Mifflin merged with Saber. Right, Sabre, yeah.

1:21:14 Chris: But this guy basically just appears to be, like, a total, like, businessman dude. Like serial entrepreneur, which makes those glass to reviews that talk about him having, like, you have to buy into Gaia's mission to get hired. It makes those sound really weird to me. Kayla: Well, it's like, is this. Is he a Kool aid drinker? Chris: This guy definitely seems like, okay, this is how you make this success is like, you have to. You have to get a bunch of weirdos to make content for other weirdos, you know? Like, it definitely seems like a part of the formula to him. I don't know. Kayla: And I just wonder. Cause, like, there was that one where you being like, he doesn't believe in Covid. Like, I wonder, does he not believe in Covid because he actually thinks it's a conspiracy? Or does he not believe in Covid? Chris: Or is he just trying to be consistent with his content creators?

1:21:55 Kayla: No, not even that. But just not believing in Covid is better for his business. Chris: Oh, right. Kayla: Or he thinks it's not. Ultimately. Chris: Ultimately it's not. Kayla: It's not better for your business. But when you're like short sighted and myopic, it's like, well, I don't want people to work remotely. I don't want to shut down for Covid because I want to, you know, gotta work, work. Chris: Yeah, I don't know. Anyway, this is the best picture I could find of his timeline. It's a little bit confusing still. But anyway, this is from a. From a different bio of him. He has been chairman since. As chairman of Gaia since Gaia's inception and has also served as our full time CEO other than during the period from March 2009 to July 2016. In 1986, Mister Resvee founded Corporate Express, Inc. Which under his leadership as chairman and chief executive officer, grew to become a Fortune 500 company supplying office and computer products and services. Mister Rec also founded and served as chairman and chief executive officer of Crystal, a health foods concept which was sold in 1987 to become the concept and first wild Oats market store. The writing here is a little hard to follow.

1:23:04 Kayla: So Crystal geyser, what is it called? Chris: Crystal Market. Kayla: So crystal market became wild oats. Chris: Yes. Mister Recivy was also chairman of Real Goods Solar Inc. An entity Gaia founded in 1999 and brought public in 2009. So I guess it's like, I feel like I've heard subsidiary or something. I don't know. In 2009, Mister Resevie resigned from the board, I think they're talking about of the solar company board. And in June 2013, after Gaia sold the majority of its investment to Real goods Solar Inc, Mister Resavie brings to the board significant senior leadership, strategic focus, business development, sales and marketing, international experience from his past business experience as CEO and founder of several successful businesses. End quote. So business dude.

1:23:51 Kayla: Business bitch. Chris: I can't really tell if the guy is like charismatic or not. Like, his picture is not super charismatic. Kayla: I can show he does not seem charismatic to. Chris: He's like a like kind of a lanky dude. Kayla: He seems uncharismatic. Chris: Yeah, he seems like one of those like severe sort of eastern european type guys. But I also haven't seen videos of him, so who knows? That's total speculation. But anyway, he seems to be where he is, mostly due to his business acumen, not because he's some, like, woo spiritual guru, right? Kayla: It doesn't seem like there's, like, a cult of personality here. Chris: Yeah. Although, who knows? He could have been like that all along. Like, he could have been, like, spiritual dude all along. And you know how rich white guys get. Like, it's like Gavin Belson on Silicon Valley. Right, right. Once a white person gets rich enough, they start doing weird ass spiritual shit.

1:24:36 Kayla: Well, it's like, what if Paltrow didn't start out? Chris: Yeah. Kayla: With that. With goop as her business. She started out as an actor, right? She started out as a child of famous people, right? Chris: And then you get it. You get rich enough, and you're like, I'm gonna do wellness first. Kayla: I'm gonna start by saying everybody should get a pizza oven in their backyard, and then I'm gonna sell you the jade egg to put in your vagina. Chris: Your yoni. All right, so criterion judgment. Kayla: I don't need it. I don't need to. Chris: Oh, actually, hold on. Kayla: Oh, no. Chris: Before we do that, I just have one more tiny little detail to mention. Kayla: Oh, God, I don't like it when you do this. Chris: One little lead that I buried again. Kayla: I love to bury a lead. It's like the Caleb Peterson's Lyme disease.

1:25:17 Chris: So we talked a little bit about how they have a yoga chin, right? Kayla: Yes. Chris: You like yoga, right, Kayla? Kayla: Yes. Chris: Does Gaia sound familiar to you at all as someone who does Yoga? Kayla: Gaiam? Chris: In 2016, the company formerly known as Gaiam, Inc. No. No. Sold off its branded consumer products division to sequential Brands Group Incorporated and then changed their corporate name to Gaia Inc. And their business entirely became the Gaia TV subscription service, formerly known as Gaiam TV. Gaiam still exists as a consumer products brand owned by sequential Brands Group, which, by the way, they're definitely, like, a capitalism is cult topic. I looked at them for only, like, a hot second, but they appear to be some sort of, like, investment group slash conglomerate global megacorp type deal. Here's their mission statement. Our mission is to own, manage, and license large scale and diversified portfolio of consumer brands across multiple industries. But I digress. Your yoga mat makers, they're no longer affiliated with the Netflix for weirdos thing. That guy is now.

1:26:27 Chris: But they both came from that place. They were the same company up until 2016. Kayla: Cool. Chris: How about that? Kayla: So can I ethically buy their products or no. Chris: The answer to that is always no. But in the context you were asking it, yes. Kayla: Okay. Chris: I was worried for a second, too. Cause, like, we have, like, a few gaim yoga mats, and I was like, oh, no. Are we supporting this crazy ass bullshit? Kayla: We don't have gaiam yoga mats. Chris: I don't I? Kayla: No. You have a manduka yoga mat. Chris: Oh, pardon me. Kayla: We have gaiam yoga blocks. Chris: Excuse me. I don't even use it for yoga. I just do pilates on it and other shit.

1:27:08 Kayla: Yeah, it was mine. You took it. Chris: I didn't take it. I just sweat on it enough. Kayla: Special yoga mat that I got for a present from my family, and then you sweat it all over it, and I can't use it anymore. So now I have a cheap ass Amazon one. Chris: Okay, I'll get you another one. Kayla: No, you won't. Cause they're, like, $90. Chris: Okay, I won't get you another one. Fuck that. You could just deal with the fact that I sweat on it a little bit. Kayla: You could get your own yoga mat. You could have gotten your own yoga mat, but instead you took mine. Chris: Like, it's. Anyway, we can buy. If we wanted to, we could buy a gaim yoga mat and feel okay about it, because they're two different companies. Kayla: Okay, that's fine. Chris: But they weren't two different companies at one point, so you remember you were like, that's weird. Why do they have yoga as, like, a random ass channel? It's good. It's in their DNA, man.

1:27:55 Kayla: Yep. Chris: Now I know the one glassdoor guy was like, well, it's because, you know, it's the gateway drug, which I'm sure it is. Kayla: Yeah. Oh, it is. Chris: But it's also because they have that sort of in their blood. They used to be yoga consumer goods, then they started this content stuff, and then they're like, oh, that's what the money is. We don't have to sell physical objects. We can just advertise spam people on YouTube, and they'll click on it because it's about ancient aliens, and that's what people click on. Oh, man. This is the business model. Kayla: That is the business model. Chris: And now they're a publicly traded corporation doing this stuff. How good does that make you feel? Kayla: Not. Not good.

1:28:36 Chris: All right. You want the sheet? Kayla: No, I don't need it. Chris: Here's the sheet. Kayla: I already know. I already know the answer. Chris: It's our shtick. Kayla: I'm just saying. I already know the answer. Also, I'm not touching it because you still haven't transferred. It's still covered in cat. Chris: Yeah, this is. It's always gonna be covered in catarf. It's the original document. Kayla: Well, I'm not touching it. Chris: Thousands of years from now when this is, like, in a museum, it belongs in a museum. Kayla: It doesn't belong in a museum. It has catbar f on it. All right. Expected harm towards the individual. Yes. High. Because you're going to be like, ooh, Arcturians. Also, I can cure my cancer by a single thought. Chris: Also, I should join QAnon and maybe shoot up a piece of parlor. Kayla: Hi. Is it niche within its society? Chris: I mean, they use the n word there. Oh, it's a different n word. They use the word niche several times, like saying, oh, this is a niche market they're catering to.

1:29:26 Kayla: I think it is. Chris: I don't know if 500,000 subscribers is niche. Kayla: It is niche. Chris: Okay. All right. Kayla: Compared to how many people there are in the United States. Chris: I mean, it's a lot of people. Kayla: It's niche, though. Chris: I think if they are being described as niche, I think we can use that word. Kayla: It's just most people don't know about arcturians necessarily. Like, sure, I think it's niche. I think these are still fringe beliefs. Antifactuality. No, that's very low here. We definitely all came from the Pleiadian star system. Chris: No, I think the anti factuality is, like, the highest. The highest of the criteria this time. Kayla: Percentage of life consumed. It doesn't necessarily seem like that's high. Chris: I don't know. One thing I didn't get into that much with the research here is what their customer base is like because there wasn't as much info about that. But I don't know, sometimes these people do get sort of consumed by this stuff.

1:30:18 Kayla: Sure. But there's only 8000 titles. Chris: Oh, yeah. But if you multiply that by 7 hours per title. Kayla: Yeah. Chris: Inevitably. Kayla: I can't imagine that it's more any more life consuming than, like, any other streaming service. Chris: Yeah. Kayla: So I'm gonna say low Gaia and chill. Yeah. Ritual. I can't necessarily say that's high here. Chris: Doesn't feel super high, aside from the, like, shared vocabulary aspect of it. Kayla: Right. Chris: Of, like, oh, yeah. Pleiadians, starseed, alien, reptile people. That's my jam. Kayla: Yeah. I'm gonna say ritual is actually low. Chris: It's low, but it's. I'm gonna say, like, medium low because of the shared vocabulary.

1:30:58 Kayla: And then charismatic leader. Chris: That one's definitely low. Kayla: That one's low. Chris: I mean, he exists, I guess. But I don't think that because of, like, the. The machinations of this and, like, the vision of this singular person, like, the way, you know, Mary Kay or, I don't know, Jay z Knight or someone. Right. This is more like, it's a company. It's like they're, like, sort of riding the wave. They're not necessarily creating it, but then. Kayla: Also, like, the whole thing about, like, you have to pledge yourself to the ideology if you work there. Chris: Yeah. Kayla: I don't know. It's tough to say it's a bag on the criteria. Like, we have half and half, basically. And for me, it's strong enough to. It's a cult.

1:31:43 Chris: Yeah. I'm a little less definitive. I think it's a cult. And I'm mostly just, like, trusting the multiple employee reviews that call it that. Like, they know better than me because they were in the building. Kayla: Right. Chris: They experienced it, and I didn't. Because of the fact that, like, I think the lack of the charisma and the charismatic leader, the lack of that, like, vision aspect of it makes it a little. It's like, it's just a company. It's riding a trend of bullshit. Ritual is medium to low. But I ultimately, again, because of the glass reviews, I think. I think cult. Kayla: You're a cult. Chris: So there's. That means we're saying that there is a cult that is publicly traded on the Nasdaq stock exchange.

1:32:26 Kayla: I think there's probably lots of cults that are publicly traded. Chris: Actually. That is true. That was one of the things I was going to say is, like, I mean, I. Herbalife is publicly traded. Kayla: Herbalife is. Tesla is like, come on. Yeah. A lot of mlms are, I'm sure. Chris: Yeah. Kayla: So cults get publicly traded on the Nasdaq. Cults are inextricably linked with our society and our economy. Chris: Yeah. Kayla: Burn it all down. Oh, wait, we're already doing that. Welcome to California 2020. Chris: Yay. And with that, no. So before we sign off, I just do want to say a few more words about some of that stuff. I think that's sort of like, theme of this episode is that it's like the goddamn algorithms, right? Like, it's so telling to me that the majority of the Gaia stream service growth has been in the seeking truth and transformation channels.

1:33:13 Kayla: Right? Chris: That's. That's where. That's where the growth is happening. There was a quote that I didn't include here, but, like, the. The CEO's, like, mentions on, like, an earnings call. That, like, that's where all the growth is in the seeking truth channel. And that's the most provocative content, right? Like, yoga is, like, whatever, blah. Who cares about yoga videos? That's not provocative. And it doesn't produce the holy e word. Engagement. Kayla: Ooh. Chris: You get engagement out of talking about ancient aliens and Bigfoot and health conspiracies in Atlantis. And I know, like, for 99% of our listeners, this is a topic that has been, like, beaten to death over and over in the last few years. But I just kind of want to talk about it a little bit. Anyway, this is the problem with the recommendation engines currently in, like, a lot of the services and apps that we use. It's no coincidence that YouTube is sort of, like, what we started with talking about on the show today because they are a prime culprit. You mentioned it. The algorithm pushes people towards these extremes, right? The radicalization via YouTube algorithm is a huge problem. YouTube just wants your eyeballs to stay on their site, and they want you to click more videos. More videos equals more money for them.

1:34:21 Chris: And what gets more clicks isn't a well reasoned, nuanced discussion about something real. What gets clicks is clickbait, and it's videos with titles like what the mainstream XYZ won't tell you and ancient secrets of the pyramids. That's what gets clicks. And the algorithm knows what you're into, and the descent into madness is gradual. They'll notice you're a history fan, and they'll serve you a video with just, like, a dash of skepticism about who built the pyramids. Then a video later after that, you're learning about the Atlantis myth and possible locations for Atlantis. Nothing wrong there. Then a couple videos later, you're learning that the Atlanteans were birthed from a combination of human and aesir, and the pyramids were built by aliens. And then you're in.

1:35:04 Chris: It's too late, and the rest of all that garbage has free reign over your brain, and it's hard to get out. Then you're like, hell, yeah, I'll subscribe to Gaia. The mainstream fill in the blank doesn't teach us the truth that the earth is hollow and the illuminati is lizard people controlling the deep state shadow government pedophile ring. I don't have a prescription for this kind of madness. I just sort of have a rant here at the end of our show. But, like, I guess the prescription is just like, fuck YouTube and social media. We'd better off without it. Like, I don't know. Kayla: Just keep. Keep a little bit of an eye on what your kids are watching on YouTube, because what you're watching on YouTube, ideally, you. Our listeners, understand this.

1:35:45 Chris: Yeah, most of our listeners, I think, understand this. Kayla: One of the real big problems is that anybody has access to YouTube, including children. Chris: Right. Kayla: And, like, the radicalization often, like, the dangerous radicalization often happens with, like, young teenagers. So just keep a little bit of an eye on what's being watched. Chris: Watch your kids. Kayla: It's never too early to have a conversation about, like, skepticism. Chris: Right? Right. And crazy ass beliefs and. Yeah, I don't know. I guess fuck you too. And the conclusion maybe is just, like, the only one I ever really have for the show, which is just that there's a ton of madness out there, and it can seem overwhelming, and it can be a publicly traded company on the Nasdaq stock exchange. It's that overwhelming. But you're not alone. Kayla and I are here with you, talking through the void into your earphones. The irrational hasn't won yet. So stay strong and stay safe out there.

1:36:43 Kayla: I'm Kayla. Chris: I'm Chris, and this is Ben. Cult or just weird? Kayla: You didn't want to do that anymore? Chris: Well, we did. Too late. Oh, we didn't, did we? Do a cold open. No one.