S1E18 - The Blueprints (RNA & Cell Biology Primer)

0:23 Kayla: And we are recording your episode now. Chris: We're just, like, jumping right into it. Oh, that's awesome. Okay, so anyway, no, I don't know. Kayla: Yeah, we have to start this episode. This is erase all of what we just talked about. We have a new episode to talk about now, so we have to do a new episode. Chris: Are we gonna leave this in where we talk about how, like, making a sausage? Like, we just did an intro for a completely different episode, and now we're, like, literally seconds later starting the next episode? Kayla: We won't leave that in. Chris: You don't wanna leave that. I mean, we gotta tell our Patreon listeners, and Patreon listeners are Paul, should we name them all? Kayla: Have we started the show yet? Chris: Yeah. Kayla: Okay. Chris: But I don't know if we should name them all, because, like, we already did.

1:04 Kayla: Here's what we'll do. We will be sure to list all of our Patreon supporters in our show notes. Chris: Okay? Kayla: Every other week. Chris: Every other episode or every other week? Kayla: Every other episode. Which is every other week. Chris: Yeah. No, it's not. Every other episode is every four weeks. Kayla: Oh, every other week. Then what did I say? Chris: You said every other week. And then I asked if you meant every other episode or every other week. Kayla: Why the hell would I mean every other episode? Chris: I have no idea. I was just trying to clarify. Kayla: No, every other week. We will be sure to list our Patreon supporters in our show notes. So go check out your shout out there. General shout out to everyone supporting us on Patreon. We could not be doing this without. Yeah, we could not be doing this without you. Thank you so much for participating and supporting us. Yeah, I guess I should say that this is culture. Just weird. This is Chris and Kayla.

1:56 Chris: Thanks. Kayla: You know, we didn't do that for the other one. Chris: Oh, for the last one. Kayla: Just record a. Chris: Are you gonna be able to, like, cut this all together? Kayla: Yeah. Chris: All right. This is Chris, this is Kayla, and this is gonna be cult or just weird. Kayla: That was good. I like that. Do we want to do another one for this episode? Chris: So, Christopher, wild and Wooly, recording session here. Kayla: That's you. You're wild. I'm wooly. That's wild. You're wild. I'm wooly. And this is Coulter. Just. Chris: No, actually, I think it's the opposite. Kayla: I'm wild and you're wild. Chris: You're wild, and I'm extremely hirsute. Kayla: And this is Colter. Just weird. Chris: This is Colter. Just weird.

2:36 Kayla: Thanks for listening. I'm sorry that we're punchy. Today, what do you have for us? Chris: An episode? Actually, I have several episodes. Kayla: Okay. Chris: A topic. Several. I believe it's going to be two. Kayla: That's a couple. Chris: I don't know. It feels now like our listeners are like, wow, they don't even know how many episodes it's gonna be. But that's fine, I guess. Just again, you're seeing how the sausage is made. Kayla: We go with the flow. Chris: We go with however many episodes it takes to tell a good story. Kayla: Yep. Chris: Or a mediocre story in our case. Kayla: Yep. Chris: So no. So no business for this one. No banter. No nothing. Just jumping right in. Kayla: I don't have any business. Do you? Chris: Not really.

3:17 Kayla: Oh. Except, okay, I won't names, but one of my favorite podcasts just changed their name and host. Chris: Is that why you won't name it? Kayla: Because it's changed and I'm very sad about it. Chris: Well, why won't you names? Kayla: Because I don't want to. I don't want to blow up their spot. Chris: I don't want to blow up their spot. Kayla: Yeah, I don't want to. Chris: You don't explode their. Their dog? Is it, like, what do you. What does blow up their spot? Kayla: I don't want to make other people mad at them or I don't want to, like, call them out. I just want to. Oh, I just want to bitch. Chris: Well, if you don't want to call people out, this is not going to be a good episode for you. Kayla: Oh, God. Chris: Because this one sort of names. Kayla: Well, I mean, I feel like if you're doing it, then that means it's warranted. Chris: Right, right. Well, yeah, I'm sort of a.

3:58 Kayla: Is this the episode that you were like, there was a while back where you were like, you were really kind of destabilized and fucked up. Chris: Was it? Kayla: Actually? Chris: Yes. Well, it's this topic. Yes. So, yeah, so I was gonna say, actually, it's not necessarily business because it's related to the. To the topic at hand. But this is one we've sort of, at least I've teased out a couple times, like, I'm working on this one, and it's been, like, forever, and we're finally getting it out to you, so stay strapped in. You'll understand next episode why it, you know, it took a little bit longer, but, yeah, it did destabilize me. And actually, that's sort of. Next episode will be part of what we talk about, because my journey through this story, I felt was, like, part of the story.

4:44 Kayla: Gotcha. Interesting. I like that very NPR. Chris: I learned from the best. Thanks, ireglass. Anyway, today, though, how do you think I'm gonna start the episode? Kayla: You're gonna ask me a question. Chris: Oh. See, now, what we've done here is we've established this pattern that people are comfortable with. Now, it's like a sitcom. It doesn't even matter if it's good. You just want to come back to it every week because it's familiar. Kayla: Well, here's the problem, though. I don't have a pattern. Chris: Yeah, you're fucking up. Kayla: Yeah. Chris: Yeah. I don't know. You have a pattern. Yours are, like, super long. Kayla: Fuck you. My last two episodes were an hour. I did good on my last two episodes. Chris: You did? No, no. I'm just making fun of you.

5:26 Kayla: Yeah, I know. Chris: And besides, one of your longest ones was cicada, and that was one of your best. Kayla: Yeah. Chris: One of the show's best. Kayla: Oh, yeah. Probably the best. Chris: Yes. But mainly thanks to all of the cicada researchers that helped us out. Kayla: Yeah. Chris: Only if they're still listening, though. If they're not still listening, I don't care. Kayla: So thank you, Cicada solvers. And now let's. What's this topic? Who should I thank? Chris: It's not that at all. Kayla: Okay. Chris: Well, actually, you could thank someone. I won't this one, and I won't names, but this was a listener suggestion. Kayla: Ooh. Chris: And I'm saying that one because it's super cool, and two, because I just want to throw out there that we do take your suggestions to heart.

6:07 Kayla: And I'm assuming that this listener just did not want to be this listener submitted anonymously. Chris: They didn't say one way or the other. I'm just being cautious and safe. There's nothing crazy controversial about the topic, really, but I just. Safe than sorry. Kayla: Right. Chris: Then we have to go back and edit stuff, and then I have to. I don't have to email the person and be like, oh, do you want to be new? And then have to edit it out? It's safer just to be like, a listener told us this. So, Kayla. Kayla: Yeah. Chris: Tell me, what do you think is the most amazing thing in the universe? Kayla: How many things are there? Okay. It's potentially the potential number one for the top spot.

6:53 Chris: Huh. Kayla: Is that question, how many things are there? It is the greatest question of all time ever posed. How many things are there? Chris: But has anyone posed that, or was that just in your head? I thought you were able to find. Kayla: The came from something. I don't think I came up with that. That came from something. It was like a Quora question or something. Chris: Yes. No, that. Well, you've been asking that before. Quora was ever a thing. Kayla: How many things are there? I didn't come up with that. The most amazing thing in the universe. I'm still pretty mind blown by learning about Laniakea, our interstellar cluster, or whatever it's called. Chris: Yeah. Kayla: The cluster of galaxies that the Milky Way is a part of.

7:35 Chris: Yeah. What is it? It's not a supercluster. It's like. It's like a different thing. No, supercluster. It's much bigger than a supercluster. I think I could be wrong. Kayla: Duper cluster. Hold on. Chris: I'm looking it up. There's a Laniakea beach. Oh, yeah, you're right. It is a super classic. Kayla: Well, anyway, I am pretty impressed by the Laniakea supercluster, especially because we watched that YouTube video that translated Laniakea into immeasurable heaven, which still, like, makes me. Chris: Proclaimed, I think, that it's. You mostly like it because of the name. Kayla: No, the actual thing itself is pretty fucking cool. Chris: I know. I'm just saying. Kayla: But also, the most amazing thing in the universe is. Is probably black holes, right? Chris: Yeah. Actually. So I have a note here that was like. Yeah, you're probably right. It's probably black holes, because I just assumed you were gonna say black holes.

8:19 Kayla: Really? Well, yeah, and, like, it's probably true, listeners, I guess. Full disclosure. Like, 95% of the reason we're even, like, together as a relationship is because of black holes. Chris: Yeah, I would say that's 95% true. And then the other 5% is just. I thought you were hot. Kayla: Yeah, but it's mostly. We both talked about black holes, right? What do you think is the most. Chris: Well, it's probably. It's. I mean, it's probably. Black holes are pretty freaking nuts in terms of, like, mind blowing, like, bizarreness. I don't think you can beat black holes. Kayla: Right. Chris: But for, like, for amazingness. Kayla: Although atoms are pretty fucking amazing, pound for pound.

9:02 Chris: Yes, they are. But they're also just, like. It's just because they're, like, small, you know? There's nothing too crazy about, like, a hydrogen atom. Kayla: I don't know. Chris: I think they're pretty crazy, pound for pound, for me. Amazing. This might actually be DNA. Kayla: Yeah, that's. That's also a really good choice, because. Chris: It'S not just DNA, of course. It's, like, all of the. And I guess it's sort of, like, a cheating answer to give, because I also mean all the chemistry involved in making life work via the processing of DNA and whatnot, it's really, truly incredible. Kayla: Is consciousness. Occult is passing on our genes. Chris: Occult is everything. A cult. Great. We have infinite content to work with now. That's great. So as we mentioned, today is going to be. Today's topic is going to be a two parter, much like when we did our MLM primer followed by a discussion of Mary Kaye. This first episode is going to be a primer on the topic. And next episode we'll talk about the actual cult or just weird.

10:03 Kayla: Okay. Chris: There's also another similarity with the Mary Kay episode that I'm very excited about. And it rhymes with binterview. Kayla: Ooh. Chris: So. Yeah. And ooh is. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's a. It's a cool. You'll. Well, I won't get into it now because we'll get into it next episode. Exactly what it is. So before I get started telling you a fun science story. Kayla: Ooh. Chris: I want to do our ritual of citing sources so that you know whether to trust any of the rest of anything I say. Kayla: Gotcha. Chris: And this one is, like, kind of long. I think a lot of it is just because over, like, the last, you know, and months, whatever, three or four months, I've just, like, accumulated stuff just slowly. Kayla: Right. Chris: But some of it is. Is that. It's just. It's. It's a very. It's a complicated topic. And. And I think part of it is that sort of, like, journey of disorientation I went on. And anyway, here are my sources. Wikipedia as the warm up, as always. Of course. I watched a whole series of YouTube videos produced by a genetic counselor.

11:07 Kayla: Wait, have you told us what the topic is? Chris: No. Kayla: Okay. Chris: No, I might not even tell you. Kayla: Is DNA. Chris: Is DNA a cult? No, I. No, but I will tell you. I will. I promise to tell the topic before we go to episode two. Kayla: Okay? Chris: Remember that this. Well, I mean, we didn't say Mary Kay in the MLM episode. Kayla: True. Chris: This is a primer. Kayla: Okay. Chris: This is a. I'm gonna tell you about this science stuff. Kayla: Let's do it. Chris: And then we're going to go into the actual, like, group cult, whatever. Kayla: Got it. Chris: Anyway, so I also watched several videos, which I can't really spoil here because you just asked if I'm going to tell you the topic. Not going to tell you here, but they were videos of the charismatic leader. I read part of a book called super genes.

11:53 Kayla: What are those? Chris: We'll get to that. I read some stuff from the Mayo clinic, an article on Gizmodo, an article on Forbes. I spoke with one of our listeners about this. Actually, the one that recommended the topic had a wealth of information for me. Nice website called skeptical Raptor. Kayla: I'm sorry, what? Chris: Skeptical raptor, which actually turns out is, like, a pretty cool website. Kayla: Well, it's a bitchin name. Chris: It is a bitchin name. I think the reason it's skeptical raptor is because, like, the slogan is stalking the jungle of the Internet for, like, untrue. I don't know, actually. I'll look it up. Hold on. Kayla: Is it because velociraptors, we should be skeptical of how they're portrayed in Jurassic? Because that's true.

12:39 Chris: Yeah. I mean, they should have feathers. Kayla: They should have feathers. And they probably were a lot smaller. Chris: Okay. Stalking pseudoscience in the Internet jungle is their slogan. Kayla: Yeah. Chris: Yeah. It's pretty tight. Kayla: That's, like, my brand. Chris: I know a website called sciencebasedmedicine.org. Kayla: Hell, yeah. Chris: Also very good. And will pop up in our conversation later. Definitely next episode. I also read up some articles in a National Geographic magazine, a physical magazine. Kayla: Wait, where did you get a physical magazine? Chris: That I picked up from the grocery store. What? Because I just. I saw. I was like, oh, wait, that's the topic I'm looking at. That's awesome. So I bought it and read a physical magazine with, like, real pages and everything. Those still exist. I shit you not.

13:23 Kayla: I don't know what's happening right now. Chris: I'm real. I also had a lengthy interview with someone by the name of Alex, who is the sibling of one of our friends and Patreon supporters. Shit. Yeah. So. And she is a senior research fellow. Yeah. We've met her and spoken with her in real life, and she's, like, super smart, and she's a genetic researcher at a, like, a private, like, research organization. But she. I'll go into it a little bit. But she has, like, a lot of. A lot of schooling behind her. Kayla: Right. Chris: Yeah. So I spoke with her for quite some time, and she had a lot of good insight. And then I also spoke with. Not on the phone, but on chat with a former genetic researcher at Johns Hopkins. And that's someone I worked with on the bi team at Blizzard, actually. So. Yeah. So this one's been in the works for a while. We've teased it multiple times on the show, and that's. That's, again, part of why I've accumulated so many sources. And I'm also a little bit out of my element for this topic. I kind of knew more what I was like. I probably could have given that whole double slit experiment, talk roughly without any research, but this one definitely not. So I felt like I had to consult a lot of expertise, as you should.

14:44 Chris: And as we mentioned, my own personal trust network got a little bit ruffled during the course of the research. Kayla: Wait, what does that mean? Chris: Well, it means I got a little disoriented. We already talked about that. There's actually one more source that we will be consulting in the future, which again, rhymes with binterview. So I'll cite that maybe next episode, since that's what next episode is about. Anyway, the way I'm going to prime the pump on this topic is very similar, actually, I just mentioned, to how we did for the episode on Romtha and what the bleep. We're going to start by telling you another science story and I'll try to make as much sense of my explanation as I did with the quantum double slit experiment by obviously, which I mean no sense at all. By the way, this won't be the last callback we make to that episode since there are some striking similarities between Gramtha and what the bleep and the topic we're talking about today.

15:44 Kayla: Jesus Christ. Chris: But the very first similarity, of course, is right now, which is we are starting with a science journey. Are you ready for this journey? Kayla: No. Chris: Okay. Kayla: I mean, okay, I'm ready, but I am not prepared. Chris: No, it's amazing. So take a deep breath, close your eyes, and imagine yourself in a room. And I myself am laying down on a table next to you. Kayla: I don't. Chris: I'm already out in front of you is the suit from the ant man movie. Paul Rudd is nowhere to be seen. So you being curious, you obviously don the suit and suddenly you begin shrinking and shrinking. You continue shrinking more and more until you are all the way down to the size of a human pore. So you can jump into my arm and that's gonna be about 50 microns, give or take. And a micronous is simply 1,000,000th of a meter.

16:41 Kayla: That's very small. Chris: Yes. So it's 1000th of a millimeter. It's quite tiny. And that's in about 50 of those makes a human poor. So you're about that size and you can go through. And as you keep shrinking and hop into my arm, you keep shrinking down until you're the size of one of my cells. Cells are about give or take, depending on the cell, they're wildly different sizes, but let's, on average, say they're about 100 microns in diameter. Kayla: Okay. Chris: Which you'll notice bigger than a pore. Kayla: Yeah. Chris: But if you're only the size of the pore, you're half the size of a cell already. So you need to shrink down a little bit more to actually go swim around inside the cell. But like I said, I thought it was kind of interesting. The smallest cell, I believe is based on my research, is actually a sperm cell. And those can only be up to, like three, four microns in diameter.

17:37 Kayla: Okay. Chris: And then as high as 120 ish microns for an egg cell. So. And that's, I think the. The largest human cell is an egg cell. Kayla: Yes. Chris: And some egg cells you potentially can actually see unaided with the human eye. You can see it without a microscope. Kayla: Ew. Chris: It's possible to see them. Kayla: Oh, my God. Chris: I think so. At least that's what I read. I don't know. I read it a couple places, so I think that's right. And even though that's, like, the sort of the smallest and the biggest, that's just talking about, like, you know, generally speaking, like, there are some cells that even though they aren't as, like, volumetrically as big as an egg cell, they can get pretty large. So some neurons, even though they're only a few micro. A few microns around, they can extend all the way into your limbs. So, like, some of your. Some of your nerve cells are actually feets long.

18:27 Kayla: Right. Right. There's one, like, isn't there, the base of your spine that's, like, super duper long? Chris: I know there's a nerve at the base of your spine. Kayla: It's like a nerve cell. Chris: Is there a single. Yeah, so probably. I didn't look it up. I'm not sure. But let's see. Kayla: Why didn't you look up? Chris: I don't know. You're just saying. Kayla: Isn't there a question that I was going to ask now? Chris: You're welcome to look it up right now. Kayla: I'm just saying you should have already known I was going to ask that. Chris: Anyway, back to you in the ant man suit. So let's say you're swimming around until you find a suitable cell to take a peek into. Kayla: Okay. Chris: What you're about to see is, as we talked about in the intro, in my opinion, one of the top three most amazing things that happen in our entire universe, right up there with black holes and taco Tuesday right inside this cell. And every other cell inside me and you right now. Biochemical processes happen that are so elaborate and complex but so vital to our continued living. It's kind of insane that they happen at all, right? And yet they do all the time, constantly. And they're happening inside you and me right now. As I said, inside to all of our. Anyone listening to this podcast right now, this is happening in you right now. Once you've entered this example cell through its cell membrane, you are swimming in what's called the cytoplasm of the cell.

19:39 Chris: So that's just think of it as just the liquid inside of your cell. It's mostly water. Things work a little bit differently down at the scale. Everything is very jittery because of something called brownian motion. So it's like, it's not quite like just swimming around in water. It's like very. Water actually becomes very viscous at the scale, and very. And things are kind of, like, jittering around a lot. Kayla: Gross. Chris: But don't. But don't worry about that. Just at this point, you can just kind of pretend like you're swimming through a regular old swimming pool. Your destination is in sight just ahead, which is the cell's nucleus. The nucleus of the cell is porous, which you'll understand why in a minute, but it's convenient now because you can just swim right through one of these pores and get inside the nucleus. And that's where inside the nucleus lives the molecules that have essentially become synonymous with life itself, since, as far as we know, all living cells use it as the information and control mechanisms for their life sustaining processes. And that's deoxyribonucleic acid or DNA. Any questions so far?

20:42 Kayla: No? Chris: Okay, so everybody knows DNA. It's that, you know, when you. Whenever you have a biology textbook or anything that has to do with, like, you know, genes or any, you know, anything, you learn like that or anything that's in a video game or a. Kayla: Movie, when you start learning about DNA. Chris: And, like, you see that double spiral. Yeah. Kayla: You watch Jurassic park, right? It's right there, right? Dinosaurs. Chris: Good job. Because we need to mention Jurassic park in every episode. Kayla: That's the only thing I care about. Chris: Actually, you've mentioned it twice now because of skeptical Raptor. Yeah, I guess so. Through line, Jurassic park. Kayla: I'm basically the Jerry Seinfeld of Jurassic. Chris: Park, except instead of Superman, it's Jurassic park. Yeah, right. Anyway, DNA is super fascinating, and I'm trying to keep this episode a reasonable length. So this whole discussion is just like, barely scratching the surface on the biochemistry of DNA and that whole story. So, for the purposes of this podcast, just think of DNA as essentially as a blueprint, but don't think of DNA as a blueprint of, like, how your actual body looks. Right. There's no, like, drawing of Kayla's body on some blueprint living in your cells. It's not a blueprint.

21:56 Kayla: Why not? Chris: Well, because that's just not how it works in a complexity sense, it can't really work that way. But again, let's. I can't get too deep into some of these, like, details of how this stuff is. But, so, but the point is, it's not a blueprint of how your body looks or how it's put together. DNA influences all that. But it doesn't specify, like, exactly how it's supposed to look in its code. Kayla: Right. Chris: It's actually a blueprint for proteins. So, yes, our cell nuclei are fucking swole, bro. And they don't forget leg day. Kayla: They love protein. Chris: They love protein. But let's talk about proteins and why they are critical for life. Protein is basically a catch all term for a specific type of complex molecule that's made up of chains of other special molecules called amino acids, which you can think of as like, the legos of proteins.

22:49 Kayla: I will think of them like that from now on. Thank you. Chris: Yeah, so you've got atoms which make up molecules, and some of those molecules make up structures called amino acids, and these amino acids, chained together make a protein. Now, depending on which amino acids are used and in what order, that makes a different protein. So some proteins will have different amino acids in one order, and they'll have different protein as different amino acids in a different order, or maybe the same amino acids in a different order. But that's all proteins are, is just long chains of these things that all just ended up getting folded up based on what amino acids were used in the chain. Does all that make sense so far, what proteins are and how they're built?

23:34 Kayla: Yes. Chris: Okay. And so we just talked about how proteins in different orders fold differently, and that's actually a crucial molecular habit that these proteins have of folding all around in very specific ways, because that's what makes them do what they do. Use one combination of amino acid chain and the protein folds into one weird shape. Use a different combination, it folds into a different weird shape. And then depending on how they folded, they have a different function within your body, within the cell. Kayla: What's they? Chris: Proteins. Okay, so proteins, again, just to recap, they're made of amino acids. And then depending on which amino acids you use and in what order, it causes the final structure of the protein to fold in different ways. So folded proteins are essentially the tool molecules for life. They guide chemical reactions. They bind to other pieces and bits of your cells, or to other proteins, or to invading cells or whatever. They're just all the little tiny tools floating around in your body, in your cells, in your bloodstream, and everything. Not just you, not just humans, but everything. And the shape of the fold determines their job. So if proteins are like your toolbox, then folding a protein one way makes it a hammer, and folding it a different way makes it a screwdriver. Folding it another way makes it a wrench.

24:58 Chris: So you, at your shrunken ant man level, you would see all sorts of these proteins floating around the cell cytoplasm, doing various jobs. Kayla: Gotcha. Chris: There's a whole fuck ton of proteins that do an equal fuck ton of things in your body. Like I said, some of them are responsible for one chemical being converted into another that's needed for your body, some like, some of them are responsible for digestion, some of them are responsible for releasing energy for your cells to use. But you have thousands and thousands of different types, and they're all doing all these different things. Do you want to guess how many different types of proteins you have floating around in your body? Kayla: A hundred thousand. Chris: Good guess. I figured you'd probably over guess by the way that I asked that question, but it's a 20,000. You have 20,000?

25:42 Kayla: Oh, I thought it was me. Like way off. Chris: Like off over, or off under? Kayla: Off under? Chris: Oh, really? No, I guess then the answer is only 20,000. Isn't that crazy? Kayla: 20,000 is insane. But it's just like, I guess for. Chris: All the different things that we're talking about having them do. Kayla: Yeah, it's just, it's a lot. There's like, when we're talking about this shit, there's not that much between 20,100 thousand. Like, it's a shit ton, right? Chris: Yeah, the answer is shit tonight. So you might be asking yourself at this point, how do you even get these proteins in the first place? Or like, I guess, how do you put these amino acids together? Where do they come from? Kayla: You take a protein powder and then you mix it into your almond milk and you shake it up. Chris: That's right, that's exactly right. Yeah, you got it. And then you just, and then you go drink a couple of raw eggs.

26:28 Kayla: Yeah. And then you crack them directly into your mouth. Chris: I mean, that is. That's not wrong. Like, that is how you get the raw materials to build these proteins. But I guess the question is more, once you've broken down these raw materials, how does your body turn them into the proteins that it needs, not just egg whites. How do your cells know how to put proteins together, 20,000 different potential kinds together to fold up in these crazy specific ways to do crazy specific things. This brings us back to the thing that you shrunk down to come look at in the first place. Kayla: Why did I shrink down and go into your cells?

27:09 Chris: Because you're. Well, a, you're weird. B, you're curious. C, if you have ant man suit, like, come on. Kayla: You're immediately gonna jump into the body. Chris: Of Christopher Carlson, if that's the body that is lying next to you right there. But if it was a different body, you would probably do the same. You would totally, like, go, all inner. Kayla: Space feels very violating. Do you have consent? Chris: No, you don't need consent at that scale. Kayla: I feel like you do. Chris: I don't know. None of my bacteria gets any consent except for the stuff in my kefir. Kayla: Yeah, but maybe it would be nice if they asked for consent, right? Chris: If the bacteria ask for consent, I guess then we wouldn't need immune systems. That'd be nice. Kayla: Or like a virus, if it had to go, excuse me. Knock, knock. May I? And you go, not today.

27:53 Chris: Right. But then all of the parasitic organisms and all those diseases, like, they wouldn't be able to exist anymore because everybody would just say, no, I'm fine with that. Those poor diseases. Kayla: I'm okay with that. Chris: Did you get their consent to not exist anymore? Kayla: If something requires you to exist, it's kind of not your problem. Chris: Well, this sounds like a bit of a bigger discussion, because some parasitic relationships evolve into mutually beneficial. Kayla: Like, them fish that hang on, the physiosis relationships. Chris: No, I don't think those are. Those are just pure parasitic. You talking about lampreys? Kayla: No, the ones that swim along with them. Chris: Oh, and eat the parasites.

28:34 Kayla: Yeah. Chris: Yes, but they themselves are not parasites. Kayla: No, but it's like a symbiotic situation. Chris: Yes, it is. Anyway, consent or no, you wanted to jump in and see what DNA looked like. You totally did. Because that's required for my story. Okay, so, yeah, you wanted to go in and look at the DNA, which, as I mentioned, is literally a blueprint for the construction of these vital proteins. So think of your cell nucleus as like a bank of critical information and the DNA is the vault safe in the bank. It's a very stable molecule, very long molecule that can be called upon when needed, quote unquote needed, to release its information to the cell in order to create a needed protein.

29:15 Kayla: Can you say that again? I didn't understand it. Sorry. Chris: No, it's okay. So your cell nucleus is like a bank of critical information, and DNA is like the vault safe in the bank. Kayla: Okay. Chris: It's like the blueprints in the vault safe. Kayla: Okay. Chris: And it's a very stable molecule, which is part of why the information gets stored there is because if you need information to blast from birth to death and then also to be passed on to, you know, your next generation of kin and whatnot, you can't have that information being, you know, messed with or disordered or whatever. Not to say that it doesn't, but if you have that happen too much, then it. It's lost all value as a store of information. So you kind of get what I'm saying about, like, the. Like, DNA as the blueprints in the vault.

30:01 Kayla: Yes. Chris: Okay. So when a particular protein is needed, quote, unquote, the cell nucleus undergoes some chemical processes that basically, we'll talk about this in a second, but they'll basically unwind the DNA in a certain point and then read that information and then pass it to other mechanisms in the cell. So, remember, I was just saying it's also very long. Kayla: Yeah. Chris: Do you want to guess how long an individual DNA strand is? Kayla: I used to know this. I don't remember anymore. It's insane. Chris: So this part is like the mind blowing thing. Kayla: Yeah, it's like, it's truly insane that. Chris: I have been wanting to, like, remember I was saying, like, oh, I have a mind blowing fact for you. Kayla: Tell me. Chris: So, if you were to stretch out a DNA strand, an individual DNA strand, end to end, it's longer than you are tall. It's 2 meters long.

30:49 Kayla: So fucked up. Chris: Roughly. Kayla: That's so fucked up. Chris: All packed into. Not just into a cell, but into a tiny nucleus within that tiny cell. Kayla: Right, right. Chris: All wound around. Kayla: It's insane. Chris: Do you want your mind blown even further? Kayla: Yes. Chris: So I ran into this cool stat that I wanted to fact check because it blew my mind. And then based on the numbers I looked up, I actually made my own little version of the stat that I think is maybe a cooler way of saying it. So let's say you started unraveling all of the DNA in all of your cells. All of them. Kayla: I don't want to do that's like a bad idea. Chris: All right, then you don't do it, and we move on to the next part. Kayla: No, I'm just scared. Tell me.

31:30 Chris: And you have infinite time because it's going to take a while. Kayla: Right. Chris: Let's say you start unraveling all of your DNA and all of your cells, laying them end to end. How far would it unravel? I'll give you a multiple choice answer. A, around the earth once, b, around the earth 20 times, c, until you went from the earth to Mars, or D, until you went from the earth to Neptune? Kayla: Around the earth twice. Chris: That was not answer. Kayla: Wait. Yes, it was. Chris: It was around the earth once, or then the next one was 20 times. Kayla: Oh, well, I pick around the earth twice. No, around the earth 20 times. Chris: Okay, I'm gonna say it's not that.

32:13 Kayla: Okay. Tell me what it is. Chris: I want you to guess again. Kayla: I don't want to do that. Just too bad. Well, I'm not doing it. Chris: It's my episode, so. All right. Packing up. Kayla: Is that around the earth once? Chris: Guess again. Nope, it's not around the earth twice or once? Kayla: I said 20. Chris: Oh, 20. So it's not 20 or I'll tell you, it's not once, either. Kayla: Right. Chris: Okay. Kayla: So, then, is it from here to Neptune? Chris: Close. Kayla: From here to Mars? Chris: No, it was actually a trick question. Well, that's not very fair, because it's none of those. By the time you unraveled enough DNA to arrive at Neptune from Earth, you would be one 12th of the way. Finished unraveling.

32:54 Kayla: Wait, I'm sorry. Say that again? Chris: By the time you unraveled enough DNA to arrive at Neptune from Earth, you would be one 12th of the way. Finished unraveling, you would have only unraveled about 8%. Kayla: That's insane. Chris: Of your DNA by the time you got to fucking Neptune. Kayla: That's truly bananas. Chris: Neptune. Kayla: That's bananas. Chris: And trust me, I did the math. It checks out, because a couple times. Kayla: I was like, I don't believe this. Chris: No, because just knowing how vast space is, right? Kayla: No, from here to Neptune isn't. It's an unfathomable. Chris: I just found out. Bonkers. Yeah, well, yeah. Light would take a little over 4 hours to reach Neptune from Earth.

33:36 Kayla: Jesus. Chris: So, if you multiply out that one 12th and do all that mathematic, your DNA fully unraveled is two light days long. Kayla: Damn. Chris: It. Would take light two days to travel from one end of all of your DNA laid out in a line to another. Kayla: Jesus Christ. Chris: Two days. Kayla: That's pretty baller. Yeah, it's bonkers and bananas and whatever other b word, right? Chris: It's all the b words. In any case, the point is, your DNA, compared to the volume that it occupies, is really, really long, because, again, two light days long. But, like, it all fits inside your cell nuclei, right? And the way it fits into your nucleus is that it just coils up, and then it coils up again, and it coils up again and again. So it's like, sort of like if you've ever spun around, like, a cord or a rope into a coil, and then once it gets fully, like, into a spiral, it starts, like, coiling on itself again. Have you ever done that?

34:30 Kayla: Yeah. Chris: Do you ever. Have you ever done that? The original example I was gonna give washing, doing that with. With, like, a. Like, a landline phone. Kayla: Oh, yeah. Chris: But then I realized, like, probably, like, 80% of our listeners would be like, what the hell's that? I don't relate to that. Kayla: I don't think there's a bunch of zennials listening to our podcast. Chris: You don't think so? Kayla: No. Chris: Or, like, younger millennials? Kayla: I think younger millennials will still be able to understand. Chris: So you think it's a bunch of old people listening to our podcast? Kayla: I think that you just used a word that I didn't use. So. Chris: So that's a yes. Kayla: No. Chris: In any case, I don't know how many people listening have experience with a landline phone, but I'm sure that everybody's, like, spun a rope around anyway, so all of these coils upon coils of your DNA wrap around little, tiny, like, lumps of molecules called histones, and histones are, again, they're just like, think of it as, like, instead of just spinning your rope around, you're actually, like, wrap. You're coiling it and coiling it and then wrapping it around, like, a little rock or something, and somehow all this shit stays organized and doesn't tangle up in your nucleus, which is crazy, because, like, I can barely keep my phone charger cord from tangling with my nightstand lamp cord and the space of my giant, boxy nightstand.

35:44 Kayla: I literally cannot keep my wires from getting tangled, no matter what I do. Chris: Yeah. And yet our cells have 2 meters worth of DNA strands, and they're tiny nuclei that are thousands and thousands of times smaller than my nightstand, and they do it just fine. I don't know how they do it. It's insane. Oh, and also, they have to coil and uncoil all of the time, constantly. So it's not like, you know, once a day I'm like, God damn it, my stupid phone charger. Like, they're just coiling and uncoiling all the time. All the time. And if I get my phone charger tangled up, I just get frustrated. But if DNA got tangled up, we'd all be dead.

36:25 Kayla: True. Chris: So DNA is just fucking amazing all by itself. Kayla: Wait, does it ever get tangled up? Chris: Probably. I don't know. I'm sure it does. I'm sure there's probably some. Kayla: I wonder what happens. Chris: That'll be in our supplemental material. But as I just mentioned, it's coiling and uncoiling itself all the time and also zipping and unzipping all the time. Kayla: Right. I remember the zipping. Chris: So if DNA, if you recall, is like a. A twisted ladder, right? It's a double helix, which means that it has, like, two ladder sides and then, like, rungs in between it. And it needs to unzip itself along a length of it to essentially to expose the information that it contains in that length to the rest of your cell. That's why it has to unzip.

37:15 Kayla: Gotcha. Chris: So this is. Yeah. So this brings us back to what we said about DNA being a blueprint of. So unzipping, it deploys that blueprint information when it's needed to the cell's protein making machines. DNA, along its enormous length has many sections called genes. That's where the word genes comes from. It's a section of DNA, and these genes are what carry the information on how to build a particular protein. So one gene will be coding for a particular protein, a different gene will code for a different protein. And when a protein is needed, the correct section of DNA will be unwound from its histone. So it's got to unwind first. And then a special enzyme called helicase will unzip the DNA strand along the length of that gene and a little bit more, too. Then a courier comes along to read that unzipped DNA section.

38:04 Kayla: I love this guy. Chris: And the courier is called RNA, or specifically messenger RNA. Kayla: I love RNA. Chris: Why do you love RNA? Kayla: I don't know, man. I just remember liking RNA. Chris: It's like unsung DNA, maybe. Kayla: We also watched a YouTube video and they, like, depicted RNA pretty cutely at one point. Chris: Yeah. Well, so it's probably good to. I don't think I wrote this down, but it's probably good here to talk a little bit about, like, how it's structured. So I talked about the rungs of DNA. Kayla: Right. Chris: There are four different rung types, essentially. Kayla: ATCG. Chris: Yeah. If you've ever heard of. Yeah, ATCG. Kayla: Do we all remember the movie Gattaca? That's where the movie Gattaca gets its title. It's just, it's made up of just those four letters. It is. That's why it has the title.

38:47 Chris: I know. I know. So, just to talk a little about the structure of DNA, the sides of the ladder are essentially structured with these sort of, like, sugar substances. That's where the, I believe where the deoxyribose part comes from. Kayla: Okay. Chris: And then the lungs. Lungs. The rungs of the ladder, the lungs of the ratter are comprised of what's called, what we call nucleotides. The DNA is nucleotides. Kayla: I feel like I'm going to be giving a quiz after this. Chris: This is. Yeah, I know. I'm trying to make this as not is not 9th grade biology as much as possible, but I just, I find it really interesting. There's so there's four. And think of the nucleotides as just like the. That's the letters. It's. If the blueprint is written in a language, then the nucleotides are the letters of that language.

39:37 Kayla: Gotcha. That's a good way of putting it. Chris: There's only four of them, and they're called cytosine, guanine. Guanine, adenine. Adenine, adenine and thymine. Kayla: Hell yeah. You got it. Chris: So that's where you get your c, g, a, and t, which, as we know, the whole purpose of having those letters is so that later, when we would make the movie Gattaca, it would match up. Kayla: Yeah. Chris: Yeah. So, and then each of these has. So each of those four things has a pair that it pairs with. So adenine pairs with thy thiamine, and so a and t go together. And GNC and G and C go together. So cytosine and guanine go together. Guany. Guan.

40:18 Kayla: I also, I need to say I don't believe any of this. Chris: Yeah, it's all total bullshit. Kayla: It's all made up. Chris: Yeah, this is what I'm saying, though. This is what I'm saying. Kayla: There's absolutely no way this is real. Chris: The fact that this happens is just like so fucking mind blowing. Kayla: It's like it's mind blowing that it happens, and it's mind blowing that we've figured it out. And that's why I don't believe it. I think it's all fake. Chris: It's completely mind blowing. Kayla: I don't actually think it's fake. It's definitely real. Chris: So anyway, so those are, like, the rungs. And basically what those individual rungs of the ladder do is when it unzips, RNA comes along and it matches up its own rungs to those rungs and says, like, all right, I'm gonna construct a length of rna now that matches this. So think of the rna coming in and being like a blueprint xerox.

41:00 Kayla: Okay? Chris: That's all it is. It's zero because you don't want to mess with the original blueprint. It's got to stay there. It's got to stay stable. It's the blueprint. Don't fuck with it. But what we can do is we can make a xerox of that and send that xerox off to a factory to tell it how to make a protein. Kayla: Gotcha. Chris: And so that's what it does when it matches those base pairs. The interesting thing I thought about, like, I don't know. To me, this is weird, is that RNA has three of the same exact base pair. Sorry, three of the exact same nucleotides, and then, like, one that works almost the exact same way, but it's different. Kayla: Yeah. Chris: So they both have cytosine, guanine, and adenine. But instead of thymine, RNA has uracil. Kayla: Right. Chris: I don't know why, but. So DNA has Agct and RNA has Agcu.

41:46 Kayla: All right, it's gotta be a little different. Chris: Yes. Maybe RNA is a rebel because it's pissed. Because RNA. The theory, by the way, is that RNA used to have DNA's role. Everything used to be RNA. And then when DNA eventually arose in the chemical evolution of life, that it sort of displaced RNA, and now RNA is just the messenger boy. Kayla: Oh, RNA. I'm sorry. Chris: Sorry. Rna, we love you. But anyway, so, yeah, so it basically makes a xerox copy of that section of DNA that unraveled and unzipped, and then that RNA skedaddles out of the nucleus and heads straight towards a protein making factory inside of your cell. And those are called ribosomes. And I don't know, think of the ribosome as like, it's like a little tape measure case, and instead of a tape measure going into this case, the RNA goes into it, and it's just like, it kind of goes in one end and comes out the other end.

42:44 Chris: And as each little nucleotide goes through, or actually, I guess I should say, as each section of the rna goes through, depending on the nucleotides that are in the ribosome at that particular point in time, that will match to other amino acid binding sites, and it'll say, okay, if it's this, and this nucleotide, then that means it's going to want to attach to a particular. This particular amino acid, and then that will chain into the one that was there before and the one that comes after, until the whole rna piece goes through and chains together a specific order of amino acids.

43:26 Kayla: Right. Chris: And as you recall, different ordered amino acids in a chain make different proteins. Kayla: There we go. Bring it all back around. Chris: How the DNA gets copied to RNA exits the cell nucleus. Kayla: Right. Chris: Goes into the ribosome and constructs a needed protein, and then the protein pops out. It folds up in its particular way. Kayla: Jesus Christ. Chris: And it's off to do its biological job. Kayla: Okay. Chris: Yeah. That's why I say it's like, to me, it really is one of the most amazing things that happens in the entire universe, and it's happening inside of you right now. Kayla: Right. Chris: The whole process of DNA storing protein codes, translating it to rna, and then the rna zooming out to the ribosome factory to make a protein is so fundamental to how we understand biology to work from biochemistry to medicine to evolution genetics, that it's referred to in the scientific community as, quote, the central dogma of molecular biology.

44:19 Kayla: Damn. Chris: By the way, I read some. Something that said, like, they don't actually, like, some people don't like the use of the word dogma because it suggests, like, belief. Yeah. And so they're like, biology is trying to. We already have a problem with that. Kayla: Like. Chris: Yeah. So I thought it was kind of interesting, but I also thought, I don't know, it's a cool. It's. It's a cool name for something. I think so, yeah. Quite possibly the most incredible thing that the universe has yet produced right here on earth. Okay, so that was actually kind of a long explanation. Sorry. I hope you found it interesting. Kayla: It was educational. Chris: Yeah. But we're not done. So here's the thing, though. Those jeans that I talked about. Do you remember what I talked about? Like, what jeans are?

45:04 Kayla: Yes. I could not explain it back to you. Chris: Okay, so genes are sections of DNA. Kayla: Genes are sections of DNA. I remembered that. Chris: And what do they do? You said there was gonna be a quiz. Kayla: They do things. Chris: Yeah. Right. Wow. There are sections of DNA that code for specific proteins. So there's a section of DNA and all of the nucleotides in a particular order get translated out and then onto RNA, and then they go to the little protein factory. So genes are a specific section of DNA that says, this is for making this protein. Kayla: Gotcha.

45:44 Chris: So the thing is building blocks of life. Sure. Yes. Kayla: That's what genes are. Chris: Exactly. More blueprints. Kayla: The blueprints of life. Chris: Yeah. So genes, the thing is they are only a tiny part of an actual DNA strand. So remember we talked about how long the DNA strand was, right. There are long sections of the strand that we just don't quite know what they're for. They may be for nothing. We just don't know. Do you want to know how much of the DNA strand is protein coding genes? Kayla: Yes. Chris: I won't even make you guess this time. Kayla: Thank you. What? Chris: 1.2% of your DNA is protein coding genes.

46:27 Kayla: Is that a lot or a little? Chris: It's. Whatever you make of it's. It's all in your head. That means, like, a little 90. Yeah. To me it sounded like a little. I mean, that means that, like, 98.8% of your DNA strand is not coding for proteins. So what the fuck is it doing? Kayla: It's losing money like all the rest of the people in the MLM chain. Chris: Exactly. Well, so for a while, the other 98.8% was considered, quote, junk DNA. So, like, basically it was just. It was thought to. It was literally thought to just do nothing. It was just not for anything.

47:07 Kayla: Right. Chris: But now scientists are finding that there's actually a lot going on in these sections that is not related to blueprinting out new proteins. These sections seem to be responsible for a variety of things. One of those things is regulating the actual coding genes. So, like, when they turn on, how often they turn on. Kayla: Oh, that makes sense. Chris: Preventing them from turning on. Kayla: Right. Chris: Making it more likely they'll turn on that sort of thing. Kayla: Okay. Chris: And other things as well. But now that we're discussing the regulation of genes, that segues us one step closer to our cult du jour. Now we get to talk about something called epigenetics. Kayla: Okay, so we have not even brushed upon our topic.

47:50 Chris: No, not yet. Kayla: All right. Chris: I told you, this is the setup. We had a whole MLM episode where we talked about mlms before we talked about the group. So that's what we're doing here. And we will definitely take audience feedback. And if they hate this format, then I won't do it. No mo. Kayla: Why would they hate it? Chris: I don't know. They might hate, like, the fact, like, you didn't talk about a cult. You just talked about gene shit. Felt like biology. Kayla: Take the fuck off. Chris: Yeah, fuck em. That's right. Fuck you, audience. So all the blueprint stuff we've been talking about, all of those blueprints are basically, like. Think of them as just, like, hard coded. Like, they're just written in stone, right? So your genes are all based on a combination of these written in stone blueprints passed to you from your parents. So that's, like, the only time, really, in the life cycle of the DNA strands that they get all mixed up is when your parents DNA mixes together and then makes your DNA makes your genes.

48:48 Kayla: How do your parents DNA mix together. Chris: When they love each other very much? A stork comes to the house with a little. A little flask and then mixes it around. Kayla: Ew. Chris: Yeah. Kayla: Gross. Chris: Yeah, it's from Jism, actually. Kayla: Please don't ever say that. Chris: It's literally from that, though. Kayla: What is jismen? Like, what is that word? Is it just an old timey word to refer to semen? Chris: Yeah, I guess. Kayla: Is that where jizz comes from? Chris: I don't know which direction it goes. I don't know. Kayla: You think Jism came from jizz? Chris: Maybe it didn't. Well, anyway, that is, one half of your DNA comes from that, and the other half comes from your mother's egg.

49:29 Kayla: Your mother's jism? Chris: Essentially, yes. So those all get mixed together when you're a single celled zygote in your mother's womb. And then that zygote is the single cell that you are based off of, because that cell splits, copies. Its DNA copies, and copies, and splits until you have a little baby fucked up. And that's why all the cells in your body are all the same DNA, because they all come from one single cell that got put together from your mother and your father's egg and sperm fucked up. It's super fucked up. So that's what we call genetic inheritance. Traits get passed on to offspring, and these traits can change and mutate when that happens, but they're pretty much locked from what you got from your parents. But epigenetics is something different.

50:15 Kayla: I've heard that word, but I don't really know what it is. Chris: Epigenetics basically says, in a way, even though you can't change your genes, you can change the way your genes are expressed. Okay, so when I spoke to Alex, our friend's sister, who is a professional gene researcher, she told me that if genes are the blueprints, then epigenetics is notes in the margins. Kayla: Oh, I love that. Chris: And those notes say things like, build me more or leave this one alone for a bit. So remember, gene coding DNA, like the actual genes, is just the blueprints. It's just the instructions for how to build proteins, not where, when, or how often. And many things are responsible for determining the when and where and how often, such as your body's chemistry, hormones, the environment, stresses, so on. And basically, all of that stuff is considered epigenetics. So here's the first fact to keep in mind. Epigenetics is a very broad term. It can refer to a wide variety of actual biochemical happenings. As long as it's something that affects the expression of a gene, it gets lumped in as epigenetics. Fact number two, to keep in mind, it's pretty cutting edge science. We're only at the very beginnings understanding how epigenetics works.

51:29 Chris: And there's a lot of. We just don't know that yet, which, if you're a scientist, is a perfectly comfortable thing to say. Kayla: Sure. Chris: But if you aren't, well, we'll get to that. Fact number three, to keep in mind, it's an exceedingly complex topic. So I said it were the beginning of our understanding. But even if were at the end and knew everything there was to know, it's still extremely complex. Genetics is already insanely complex, and epigenetics is just that much harder. Like, the amount of dumbing down I had to do just to understand this stuff myself was crazy, even for me. And I'm used to having to dump things down for myself. Kayla: Right. That's. I can concur. Chris: And it's. The reason it's complex is just like, you know, we talked about the very basics of this chemical dance in your cells. But, like, there's so much more to it than that. There's so many different chemicals that, like, you know, like, there's more steps than I said in between. There's, like, so many substeps to all the steps that I said that there. And there's substeps to those sub steps.

52:23 Kayla: Right. You didn't talk about the guy who, like, walks it down the thing. Chris: Yeah, I didn't. I didn't talk about the little. At. At Walker. Yeah, well, that only happens when. When cells are dividing. Oh, we didn't talk about cell division. Kayla: Gotcha, gotcha. Chris: Only the transcription, right? Kayla: Who is that guy, though? Chris: I don't remember what he does. Kayla: I love him. Chris: Yeah. Yeah. We didn't talk about. We didn't talk about a lot of stuff. We didn't talk about telomeres. We didn't talk. There's so many things. There's so many aspects of cell biology and chemistry that are working in so many different. I mean, that's why you can make a whole career just on, like, one gene. Telomeres are what make us age, maybe. Kayla: Cause they're frayed ends, make us old. Gotta just tighten up them ends. You don't age. Chris: So maybe.

53:03 Kayla: Please tell me you don't talk about that. Chris: I mean, telomeres is a big thing that it does come up. Yes. Kayla: It's upsetting. Chris: So it's all. So it's. Kayla: I've seen. Sorry, this is totally inside to you. I've seen telomeres be used as a way to defend misogyny, essentially. Chris: Yeah. Telomeres comes. That's why do you think that it appears here is because it's like, it's a thing that pseudoscience weirdos like to. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so the chemical dance in your cells is incredibly complex. Fact number four, to keep in mind is something that I mentioned a few minutes ago, which is while your genes are fixed from birth by your parents sperm and egg, epigenetics is not fixed. Your nurture can't affect your genes nature, but it can affect how that nature gets expressed, which is powerful.

53:55 Kayla: That does sound very powerful. Chris: Right? Cause again, DNA is the blueprints. Can't change the blueprints, but you can affect whether the house gets made quickly or slowly or at all. Kayla: Right. Chris: Okay. So I said I want you to keep four things in mind. So let's recap those four things. One, epigenetics is a very broad term, and biochemically refers to a shitload of different things. Two, it's still a very young area of research, and that's. And there's a lot that we don't know. Three, it's an extremely complex subject matter. And four, it takes something that was considered fixed genetic destiny and gives it malleability. You are not just your genes, you are how your genes get expressed. Kayla: So I have that to worry about now, too.

54:36 Chris: Well, I guess if you want to worry about it, then yes. Why, Kayla, do you think I'm highlighting these four factors of epigenetics? Kayla: I mean, I'm gonna take a wild guess here and say that it's because epigenetics is easily misunderstood, and therefore, that. Chris: Is a wildly good wild guess. Kayla: Evil, or at least manipulation. Chris: Do all these things taken together sound like nice ripe, fertile ground for quacks and pseudoscience. Kayla: Yes, yes. Chris: So let's go back to them. Number one, the fact that epigenetics is such a broad term gives plenty of space for ambiguity.

55:19 Kayla: Sure. Like quantum physics. Chris: Number two, the fact that it's a young area of research means there are plenty of gods of the gaps for charlatans to fill with whatever truth they are peddling. Kayla: Again, like quantum physics. Chris: Mm. And so gods of the gaps means for those. So that just means, like, if it's something we don't understand, then I can provide my own explanation just as a way to just fill that gap of knowledge. Rather than saying, we don't know, doesn't. Kayla: It refer to, like, ancient people's tendencies to kind of, like. Because there was so little understanding of how the world works to kind of just, like, assign, like, oh, well, it rained today because the God of rain wanted it to, or things like that? Chris: Yeah, well, so, I mean, broadly speaking, it's like. It's an aspect of. Of religion. Right. So, like, God of the gaps basically just means. Yeah, to the extent that we invoke deities to explain things we don't know.

56:06 Kayla: Okay. Chris: That's not the only aspect of religion. There's also, like, spirituality and dealing with the unknown and with, you know, existential and whatever. But things. That tendency for religion to also explain things that we don't have knowledge for yet is called God of the gaps. Kayla: Gotcha. Chris: And I'm invoking it here because since there's plenty of stuff we don't know yet about epigenetics, there's a lot of room for people to come in and be like, I know what it is. Trust me. It's this. I have the truth. Kayla: Right. Chris: So, number three, we talked about it being complex subject matter. So that means that difficult to easily and quickly combat falsehood or even understand when you're being told something that is false, it's so complex that, like, if somebody says it's this, it's hard for you to be like, wait, no, it's not. That's obviously not that. Right, right. You're more likely to be like, is that how epigenetics works? Okay, I guess. And then, number four, the fact that we're removing the, quote, the destiny from genetics and placing it seemingly, allegedly, but not quite accurately, squarely in the hands of the individual gives the individual an almost godlike amount of power.

57:16 Chris: And I'm going to call back again, as we said, I'm going to call back here to our Ramtha episode because the Ramtha school of enlightenment has a tenet that is basically ubiquitous among new age thought, which is you are your own God. Kayla: Right? Chris: And epigenetics, via its opening the door to saying, you are not your genes, you know, you have power over them. Gives enough room for the irrational to squeeze through that little open door and bestow upon you that God like you are your own God power. Kayla: Interesting. I see that little thread. Chris: And don't you know, the fact that you are own God and can essentially manipulate reality via thought, it's backed by science. It's epigenetics. It's just science. There's a whole community sprung up around this, which is super interesting. And just how much that smells like the. What? The bleep. Quantum flapdoodle.

58:08 Kayla: Right. Chris: You can manipulate reality with your mind. It's just quantum mechanics, just science. You can manipulate destiny with your mind. It's just science. It's just epigenetics. Kayla: So is this our group for today? Chris: And the end. Okay, so before we go further, I do want to do a quick recap of the science, because we dumped a shit ton of information here, and it's not all easy to grok. Kayla: Correction. You dumped we. Chris: It's our podcast. Yeah, I took an information dump on you. I'm sorry. Kayla: Oh, God. I. Chris: So we talked. Kayla: I'm just gonna get mad that you just. Chris: Oh, we already said jism, so like. Kayla: I'm not putting jism in here. Chris: What? You're not gonna put the jism talk? Kayla: No. Chris: Oh, all right. Is it just cuz my mom listens?

58:50 Kayla: No, it's because I don't want people to hear me say the word jism. Chris: Wow. Okay. So we started by shrinking down and going inside a cell and taking a look at the DNA, which is set up at that double helix pattern. The DNA is a blueprint for proteins. So what it does is it'll unwind and unzip and then copy its information over onto that sort of DNA xerox, which is RNA. RNA is a single strand, by the way. I don't know if we talked about that. Kayla: Well, I don't think we talked about that, but I knew that. I remembered that from science. Chris: Yes, because it only copies just like the fact that DNA sort of like locks itself into two strands, whereas DNA. Whereas RNA. Kayla: RNA is always open for a good time. Chris: Yeah, exactly. Well, it needs to because it's taking information from one place and putting it into another place. So then the rna copies that information from those nucleotides. It zooms on out of the nucleus over to the protein making factory, and then it makes proteins based on the code of the nucleotides that it got from the DNA.

59:46 Kayla: Got it. Chris: And then those proteins all kind of pop out in this big, long line of amino acids that then fold up into a particular shape. And one of those shapes may be a hammer and another one might be a screwdriver. Kayla: Got it. Chris: Metaphorical hammer and screwdriver question. And then we talked about epigenetics. What's your question? Kayla: Am I still the size of ant man? Chris: No. So now you've increased back to normal size, but you forgot to get out of my arm, so my arm exploded. Kayla: Oh, cool. Chris: Yeah, yeah, that's my dream. That was pretty fun. I'm shrieking, and I'm just bleeding out over in the corner, and you're just. Kayla: I mean, your arm blew clean off. Chris: Yeah. Oh, yeah. There's no bits of it left. Kayla: No.

1:00:26 Chris: So, yeah, and then we talked about epigenetics, which is the notes and the margins of the DNA blueprints. And epigenetics refers to all of the different ways that genes are regulated and expressed and turned into proteins. So I kind of feel bad because I just read this rant the other day from some random guy on Facebook about how he hates it when podcasts take forever to do their setup before they get to the damn point. Kayla: And, like, I hope he doesn't listen to Al. Chris: Yeah. Holy crap. Am I guilty of that? And if we have any similar listeners, like, oh, man. Actually, I guess at this point, we wouldn't anymore. They would have just stopped literally, like, fuck this shit. Kayla: Yeah. Chris: But anyway, here we are. We have finally arrived at our charismatic leader.

1:01:10 Kayla: Ooh. Chris: One doctor Ben lynch. Kayla: He sounds respectable. Chris: So, yeah, this is obviously where we start naming names, but it's kind of hard to not names. Kayla: Are we gonna get sued? Chris: We've named names before. Kayla: That's true. Chris: Jay Z Knight, TF. Teal's not gonna sue us. Kayla: We don't know if Teal's not gonna sue us. Teal might just not know about us yet. Chris: Well, yeah, I'm sure that both of those parties would sue us if we, you know, meant a damn if were big instead of small. Kayla: We're big. Chris: In my mind, we are. We have some really. I love our listeners. We just don't have a bajillion of them. Kayla: True. Quality, not quantity.

1:01:51 Chris: That's right. Kayla: My mom taught me. Chris: Not the size. It's how you use it. Kayla: I'm gonna throw you off of this podcast. Chris: Good luck. So, yeah, I don't know, maybe we'll get sued, whatever. But anyway, yes, we're talking about a name here because this cult, or just weird thing is centered around a person. Now this group we're talking about, it's less of a, like, we go to the compound and listen to him talk and it's more of like an online following. Kayla: Okay, so like teal, before she had her. Chris: Yeah, before she. Exactly. Yeah. And it's an online following of like customers and patients. So it's like teal without as much woo. I guess. I don't know. Less woot eel, slightly less woot heel, slightly more other stuff.

1:02:39 Kayla: Borderline woo is the most dangerous woo. Chris: Well, yeah, actually you're right about that. But anyway, at the head of this group is Ben lynch. Interestingly, Mister lynch does not have a whole lot of biographical information about him on the web outside of his own website, mthfr.net. In fact, he didn't even have a Wikipedia page about him, which just blew my mind. Kayla: Wait, what? Who doesn't have a Wikipedia page about that? Chris: Actually, I'm gonna check that again. Like, I checked it a couple times that. Kayla: I'm checking it again, like I mentioned on Wikipedia. Chris: Okay, so correction. Ben lynch does have a Wikipedia page about him. Kayla: Got you.

1:03:21 Chris: But it's former professional american football player who played four seasons in the NFL for the 49 ers. Kayla: This is not the Ben lynch we're talking about. Completely different Ben lynch. Chris: There's no, like, disambiguation that says like, which Ben lynch. You talk like, this is it. That's the only Ben lynch they have on Wikipedia. So, anyway, I don't know why it's. It was. It weirded me out to be sure because. Yeah, like you said, like, I practically have my own Wikipedia page. I guess, you know, we could go make one for him if you wanted. Kayla: Does he need our help? Chris: I doubt it. I don't think so. I think he's doing pretty well. But anyway, I thought that was weird. So any biographical stuff that I eventually give you is actually going to come from his own website.

1:04:02 Kayla: All right. Chris: And after I give you his brief bio, we are going to discuss the type of medicine that he promotes, the specific gene that he's built his brand around. And, oh yes, he has built his brand around a gene. Kayla: I mean, it's all about the personal brand these days. Chris: I know, but he's. Who builds their brand around a gene? This guy. Kayla: Doctor Ben. Liz. Chris: Yeah, he's doing well with it, but I just thought that was curious. Like, that's just such an interesting thing to build your brand around. It's kind of business smart. Kayla: No, that's business savvy. Because in general, like, genes are something that the general population doesn't necessarily understand a lot about.

1:04:43 Chris: Although after this episode, hopefully they should. Kayla: Understand perfectly in general. So if you position yourself as an authority on something that people know a little bit about but not a lot about. Chris: Yeah. Kayla: Why is this a good point? Chris: That's actually a very good point. And we'll talk about that a little bit more later. Very good point. I'm so smart, man. You're smart. Geez. Let's just. Let's just stop doing the podcast. We're just too smart. Kayla: Too smart. Chris: It's unbelievable. Anyway, actually, this dovetails into the very next part of the sentence, which is, I will tell you a little bit about how he structures his business practices. Kayla: God, I feel like we've gotten so business focused the last few episodes. And I love it. Chris: We are. It's. That's just what we are now. Kayla: Yep. Chris: Anyway, and then I'll talk a little bit about my own research journey down this rabbit hole and kind of how that threw me off a little bit. And then you and I are going to talk to someone live on the show.

1:05:34 Kayla: Ben lynch. Chris: It's not him. Kayla: Okay. Chris: I did not reach out to him. Kayla: Probably wise. Chris: Yeah. I mean, I watched a lot of his videos, but I didn't reach out to him personally. And then finally after that, of course, we'll make our call. All of this and more next time on cult or just weird. Sorry, this is the end of the episode. Kayla: Well, you're not even gonna tell us who Ben lynch is like about him? Chris: This is a cliffhanger, Kayla. If you wanna know more about Ben lynch, you're gonna have to listen to our next episode. Kayla: Oh, listen more next time. Chris: Yeah. I'm sorry to tease, but there's a couple reasons why is one is I wanted to do this sort of setup the way we did with the MLM episode. As we sort of alluded to just a minute ago. It's important to understand how some of this stuff works, sort of like at a base level, because otherwise it can get complicated. And it is hard to know who to trust and which things are real and which aren't.

1:06:31 Kayla: I mean, we all know that. Chris: That's why we started this way. Kayla: We all know that I have a tendency to join cults before I realize that they're cults. I've done it many times where I'm like, this guy on YouTube knows the answer to everything. Zero and Infinity are the same number. And then two days later, read about how he's literally a cult leader. Chris: So they're there. Kayla: So it's wise to do episodes in this fashion. Chris: Yeah. So. And again, like, you know, this is not necessarily to tease or to cliffhang a little bit. To cliffhang. But it's mostly to set it up so that there's this understanding. And so I can drop cool facts. Like your DNA unraveled would be twelve times the distance to Neptune. Kayla: I don't. Chris: So, anything else you want to say or ask or whatever. Before we sign off for this episode.

1:07:17 Kayla: Of Cult, I'm gonna make a prediction. Chris: Or just weird. Kayla: Or just weird. I ain't got a good feeling about this doctor Ben lynch guy. I think he's up to some hijinks. I think he's up to some tricks. Chris: Shenanigans. Kayla: I think he's up to maybe some shenanigans. Chris: He gets into some shenanigans. Kayla: That's my guess. Chris: Yeah. There's a little shenanigan. Kayla: All right. Chris: Which is a word now. Kayla: I'm looking forward to hearing more about it. Chris: Absolutely. All right, well, this is Chris, this is Kayla, and this is Bentley cold or just weird. Nailed it.